The following transcript has been edited for readability. Timestamps have been removed and minor transcription errors corrected. Speaker comments and context have been preserved. Please note that Michael’s job title has since changed. However, his title in this transcript reflects his position at the time of recording. At one point in the recording, the audio skips forward an indeterminate amount of time. This occurrence is marked in the transcript as [Recording skips forward], and some content may therefore be missing.

Opening Remarks

Rich Portelance

Welcome to the EdGate Powers Education podcast. I'm your host, Rich Portelance; you've seen me before. Today, we're going to be talking about crosswalking to contracts and how to close gaps and win in Texas, specifically. Joining me today are some very special guests from the Texas Education Alliance (TEA)–a team of highly experienced education industry, governmental relations; consultants, sales, and marketing experts; lobbyists, policy strategists, and industry partners working towards helping their partners win in Texas. So, please welcome Mike Jackson, managing principal; Chad Cantella, the chief lobby strategist; and Eric Knustrom, the lead education attorney from the Texas Education Alliance. Gentlemen, welcome to the podcast. 

Michael Jackson

Glad to be here. 

Rich Portelance

We're really glad to have you. 

Chad Cantella

Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having us. 

Discussion

Rich Portelance

So, you know, we're going to jump in and… obviously we're talking about Texas, and it's a complicated state. It's not simple, and if I'm an education publisher, and that's kind of the lens that we're going to be working from–publishers and edtech providers–who are trying to do business within the state. Why don't we start with a background, Mike? Can you give us a little bit of background on Texas Education Alliance, what you do, and what makes your team different? 

Michael Jackson

Yeah, thanks, Rich. Yeah, so, Texas Education Alliance was started to really help education companies grow into the state of Texas. And that can mean various different things, depending on the company, the solution, the timing, and the stage of that company–is it the growth stage, or a mature company, or a startup? When I started this firm, I realized that I– My background is in sales and marketing, so I brought that to the table, you know, really knowing go-to-market strategies, and taking Texas as its own country–which it really is, you know, it has the eighth-largest economy in the world, so it's a large education market. So, what I did is I looked at, okay, well, we need market strategy. So, when a company comes into Texas, you know, they always say, “Well, how do we do this in Texas?” You know, we hear this all the time. But one of the important pieces of that that we found is that in the state of Texas, really understanding what's happening with the legislation, governmental affairs, you know, adoption processes is extremely important to the success of the company. So Texas Education Alliance was formed by taking market strategy and sales and marketing, business development, and reaching out to the best education lobbyists and education attorneys in Austin, basically. So, Chad is going to introduce himself, and Eric as well, but their background, they have their own firm: Texas Star Alliance, and I was looking for the best educational lobbyists I possibly could find, and I think I landed on the right people with Chad and Eric. So we all work together as a team to help companies grow, and again, a lot of times it could be strictly business development, sometimes lobby work, sometimes, you know, IM (Information Management) processes, and so on and so forth. It's really based on the needs of the client.

Rich Portelance 

So, this is– that's great, and it's really focused in this education space. You guys are very specific, very niche-focused, which I think is important for success with your clients. I'm going to kick it over to Chad, but I'm going to remind everybody who's listening to the podcast, we're going to be doing a webinar on this topic on September 26th; Michael will be joining us, there's going to be some folks from Learning.com and folks from EdGate who will talk a little bit about crosswalking and how they're getting– helping out folks with making sure that their standards and their alignments are all ready for Texas, etc. So please, in the link below, there'll be an opportunity to sign up to join that webinar, so please do that. Chad, can you give us an intro as well? 

Chad Cantella

Sure. I'll give you the quick background. I have been in the political government space for most of my adult life, well over 30 years now, and have been lobbying at the Texas– at the legislative level for the last 20 years. Eric and I formed a firm about 12 years ago, and our practice– or my practice is several different policy topics, but primarily education–pre-K through higher ed–and that entails publishing and curriculum, as well. And so, what we do, you know, it's pretty simple: we communicate on behalf of clients or active groups to the legislature to help the process of creating policy, which we do in Texas every other year for six months. But, you know, in the other 18 months, we are working with the state agencies–the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board, TEA, or the Texas Department of Education–in implementing those policies, rules, and regulations to help our clients understand and advance their progress. So, that's us. I also have two kiddos in the public school system in grades 9 and 11, so I'm a consumer as well–a happy consumer.

Rich Portelance 

Fantastic. Thank you, Chad. Eric, tell us a little bit about yourself. 

Eric Knustrom

Hi, yeah, my name is Eric Knustrom. I am a licensed attorney in the state of Texas. I went to the University of Texas School of Law. Part of that, I attended Sam Houston State University, “eat ‘em up, cats!” I… Right out of law school, I went to work teaching legal research, and about 12 years ago, as Chad mentioned, I was lucky enough to make his acquaintance, start working with him on legislative matters, focusing on statutory interpretation and construction, all things related to compliance and the nuances of the Texas code and the Texas administrative rules.

Rich Portelance 

Outstanding. It's good to have experts on the panel, and we really appreciate you guys spending a little time with us. So, let's dig into what's happening in Texas, and my first question is for Chad. From your perspective, how has the landscape changed in meeting state and state alignment needs, and how can companies adopt? Do you have any..?

Chad Cantella

Sure, that's– yeah, that's a great question. And, you know, the short answer is, we've had a major overhaul of the landscape for compliance, adoption, you know, whatever your phrase is for curriculums being certified. We had a process here in Texas that was similar to most states, which was a, you know, an adoption process that had a predetermined, lengthy schedule. And the legislature passed legislation last session that's being implemented now that creates several different levels of an ongoing process. I'm sure we'll get into the details, but the short answer is the landscape has changed dramatically–the most I've ever seen in my career. 

Rich Portelance 

Which means that companies really need to pay attention and understand the details, right, of trying to gain adoption. 

Chad Cantella

That's right, yeah. Yeah, you took, you know, the words out of our mouth– or my mouth, rather, because somewhat of the process now is still being developed, right? It's… It's with lots of, you know, major policy changes. It's like anything else; the kinks have to be worked out. So staying apprised of all of that in real time is critical for any publisher that wants to, you know, do business in Texas appropriately. 

Rich Portelance 

Thank you, Chad. I think, you know, that message to me is one of the most critical, you know, staying apprised in real time, and there's– I'm sure we're going to talk about ways in which people can do that. You know, Eric, if… When we deal with clients today, we get a lot of questions pertaining to the Texas suitability standards. Can you give us an overview of what they are and how they are shaping the education content landscape there? 

Eric Knustrom

Yeah, I can absolutely tell you what they appear to be at this point. Obviously, since the legislation that created the suitability standards for the IMRA (Instructional Materials Review and Approval) process was created last session. We only know what we've heard from the agency, as the initial IMRA process has been ongoing, but essentially, the approval process has been subdivided into two areas: one having to do with the quality of the instructional material, and then the second having to do more with the suitability of it for the student population in the state of Texas, based on the elected officials on the State Board of Education (SBOE) and their prerogatives. And so, while the quality standard is far more… I think, in line with what has been done in the past, the additional component of the suitability is something that also was considered by the board when they would make their adoptions in the past. It is just now more of a pronounced part of the process, and probably far more well articulated than it existed in the past.

Rich Portelance 

Okay. And are they– the suitability standards as you see them being formulated, standards that can– or are similar to educational standards, where they can be aligned and managed through a system like EdGate’s? How do you see those kind of coming to fruition, and people actually complying with them? 

Eric Knustrom

As the process is being designed and explained to us now, those standards will have a rubric much like any rubric for any other instructional material. The difference is that instead of being based on the Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills, which are articulated very precisely in language, and the Texas Administrative Code, these are going to be articulated by these members based on what their subjective feelings are on the appropriateness of materials and grade level, with the guidance and suggestions that are provided in the process by TEA, because one of TEA's mandates is to support the SBOE, and to provide such research and background as they need to make those evaluations. It's really a way for the State Board of Education to articulate a growing sentiment in the instructional material field that the parents need to be engaged in the process, and that there needs to be full transparency and fidelity of implementation with the instructional materials. And to that end, we've been in this first round of IMRA, been giving, you know, the suitability standards as they exist now. Obviously, the State Board of Education is elected statewide, and these officials have the ability under the statute as it was passed last session to revisit and address those suitability standards for each iteration of IMRA. 

Rich Portelance 

So, that kind of leads me into another question, Eric, and maybe, I don't know if Mike is best to answer it, but you're talking about IMRA, and that's something that, you know, it's an acronym, but people don't– if I'm new to this arena, I might not know what that means. Can someone give me a background on IMRA and why that's important? 

Michael Jackson

I can give you a background, but I think Eric's description of the background’s going to be more in-depth than mine. I can– before we jump into that though, Rich, I can say, you know, everything that Eric just spoke of, and I maybe jumping ahead here, but, you know, what we're finding is a lot of companies that are either doing business in Texas or thinking about coming, growing, and expanding their market in Texas, this work is imperative to their success. You know, a lot of times, they'll come in and say, “Oh, we've hired salespeople, and, you know, we're focusing on the state of Texas,” but this foundational– foundations that they need to get right with these processes and understanding the climate in Texas are imperative to their success. So, you know, so everything Eric said, I can say that a lot of companies don't really understand that. Some do, but a lot of them go about an inch deep with it, so there's a lot more to it. So, anyways, yeah, with the IMRA, Eric, you might be able to kind of explore that.

Chad Cantella

Yeah. Before– That's a great point, Michael, is that this is very relatively new, and so we have seen groups come into the state trying to sell and not having any realization that they're not, you know, qualified to be sold as an adopted program, or know that that process has changed. So, yeah, it's better to develop that foundation before you waste that time and energy. But I wanted to add that before Eric broke it down.

Eric Knustrom

Well, I guess, you know, to get a little more granular, you know, Texas has had a few, I would say, seismic events in the recent history of instructional materials, dating back to when the textbook fund and the technology fund were combined to create the Instructional Materials and Technology Allotment (IMTA). I think this last legislative session was the next tectonic shift with House Bill 1605 (HB 1605), which created basically the IMRA process as it stands. There are a lot of similarities between the formal process for the State Board of Education, and there are some differences. I think the State Board is still issuing proclamations, which are just calls for instructional materials that they believe are necessary for the state of Texas. Whether it's because the material hasn't been updated in a certain amount of chronological time, or that there have been recent developments, or a need for something to be revisited outside of a set schedule. 

Now, that's one of the big changes is that prior to HB 1605, the SBOE published a schedule of its proclamations that would be going out as far as 10 years in advance, and that gave some predictability and some reliability to publishers in the way that in which instructional materials would be adopted. What HB 1605 does is grants the SBOE the flexibility to essentially call up whatever they want, or make a call–a proclamation–for instructional materials as they see necessary and prudent, which gives a lot more power to the State Board of Education and consultation with TEA, and can lead to some… I would say uncertainty within the publishing world. The reality of that situation is though, that for those of us who work on a daily basis with the Education Association and with the State Board of Education, it's not a, you know, secret that they are open in discussing what their needs are or what their thoughts are on what they will be adopting next. And so, it's simply that you have to stay more abreast of what the sentiment is in the state, what the needs of the state are, and what the State Board of Education is hearing from districts. 

Other than that, the fundamental process is the exact same in that the proclamation is issued, publishers respond, and once the materials have been submitted for review, the State Board of Education, using TEA as an administrative arm, hires reviewers that meet the set of qualifications. And then, they get together in a room, and essentially, you're locked there, kind of like sequestered jurors, until they have applied the rubric to the instructional materials, and come out with both scores for the quality rubric. And then there's also a review that's done for the suitability rubric, and that's when the results get released, and the State of Education ultimately makes a vote to either adopt the materials on their list, or to reject them. 

Rich Portelance 

Okay, fantastic. And so, you were talking a little bit about, and you kind of jumped into what I want to talk about next, so it was a good segue–you talked about HB 1605. We talk– You know, within Texas, there's a lot of numbers that you can mention, but, you know, it could be HB 1416 or others. Can you give us a sense of why these are important in Texas, and how does someone go about following along on the progress of those initiatives? 

Eric Knustrom

Yeah, absolutely. I think you could say that the last legislative session was monumental in the field of public education and instructional materials, solely because of House Bill 1605 itself alone, without any of the other bills that were passed that affected instructional materials. It really rewrote the foundations– [Recording skips forward] –should be up next for the process, and also for how they're going to either develop their own curriculum and instructional materials, or source partners’ to develop Texas-specific open education resources that are licensed under Creative Commons license, which all of that can get really complicated, but it is to say that there's opportunities for Publishers to work with TEA to develop a fundamental curriculum that is the basis of the HQIM (high-quality instructional material) process, but also retain their own intellectual property, and use that baseline instructional material as a source for them to produce additional materials that public schools would be interested in. Aside from that– 

Chad Cantella

I can–

Eric Knustrom

Yeah, Chad, do you want to..?

Chad Cantella

Well, just… I was just going to jump in, and then please come back to you. You know, a layman's observation may be that HB 1605, among other things, gives the State Board actually more power with, you know, this, somewhat of a subjective decision, as we visited about before with the suitability, which was, you know, part of HB 1605, and just as kind of an overview that is…  that's an observation I think most people are taking away from this. But, please continue, Eric. 

Eric Knustrom

You know, I think that there's a lot of detail I could get into about the nuances in HB 1605. I think there was a focus on the need for reliable, high-quality, tier one instructional materials that would help the state improve their performance on the end-of-course exams. Specifically, I know one of the goals of the agency and the SBOE is to improve our third-grade reading and math scores. And one of the ways that they're seeking to prioritize the high-quality instructional materials is by providing funding for technical assistance and professional development for the adoption of those curriculum that have gone through the State Board of Education process. 

So, essentially the state is building in a support; if you go through the IMRA process and you're adopted, you qualify under the quality standards and the suitability standards, the state is willing to use some of the money from the instructional technology and the Texas Instructional Materials and Technology Allotment to help districts if they've been using a different material, or if they just want to make sure that their teachers are fully equipped. They're willing to chip in for the professional development on that, and that's not something that's been done before in any way, shape, or form. 

Rich Portelance 

So, it sounds like through this process, there's a ton of opportunity. It's just getting through the web, trying to figure out how to go through the process and all the nuance of what's happening to get there. And I imagine there's been some companies that, you know, have tried and failed. So, let's talk a little bit about that process, and it could be at a high level, Michael, about being prepared with the research, and the things that you need to kind of step through. If you're going to advise a company on starting out to become adopted, you know, or start the process towards adoption in Texas, where does someone start? How do they get going, and what can you tell them about some of those steps? 

Michael Jackson

Well, I can, you know, I can kind of lead this off and let Eric and Chad fill in the gaps. I can tell you from past experiences, you know, we've had companies… education companies that they've gone through some of the rubrics, and, you know, and they went into it thinking they had everything in line with what they need in Texas. And this gets back to that foundation as well. And what we found is they did not have a lot of the efficacy studies, research, some of the things that were very important to have when you go through rubrics, and that did not allow them to get on that list. I'm just going to use it as a vague “list” at this point.

So with that said, what we're saying is that when you come into the state of Texas, I hate to say you need to have your A-game, but you really do need to have your A-game. You know, you're talking about this big of an education market for your company to grow. So, that's what we find a lot of times is that they're not prepared, so having that preparation coming into Texas, looking at that long growth strategy, you know, coming into Texas and saying, you know, “Let's put the cart before the horse,” it's not going to work that way. And that's what happens a lot of times. I think I've already alluded to that, but really being prepared, you know, what do you need on research, efficacy, the rubrics, and the suitability. Chad, Eric, I'll kind of put that in your court. 

Chad Cantella

Well said, Michael. I was going to add on to what Rich said a second ago was, you know, I would advise people to say… don't panic, right? Things have changed, and they’re still changing, so make sure you're doing what you need to do, but to your point, this does create a lot of new opportunities in our state to potentially get, you know, one or more bites at the apple to get your product in the field. And so, you know, as we get through these initial stages and people begin to understand, you know, the cycle of updated curriculum, the number of opportunities to, you know, to have it in the field, you know, in a certified capacity, are more than they used to be. So, this is a positive step for everybody involved. 

Michael Jackson

Wow, Chad, you said that so much more positively than I did. I was like, “You have to get your act together!” But, no, I agree with Chad.

Rich Portelance 

Eric, anything to add about the process of getting started to adopt in Texas? 

Eric Knustrom

I think the only other thing I'd add is that, you know, we're at a unique point in the development of a new process, and just like any other, you know, first version, there will be changes, there will be updates. This legislative session is going to provide some opportunities to clarify, to maybe correct a bit, but also to expand on exactly what the changes the last legislature was attempting to accomplish. As Chad mentioned, we work with a part-time legislature, and things are very rushed during our legislative session. There are already discussions going on among all of the stakeholders about small ways in which to clean it up. 

So I think right now, publishers and anybody involved in the adoption process have the ability to engage, and to perhaps hedge, or modify, or even, you know, sometimes shift the direction of things that could be troublesome or problematic. But, you know, like Michael said, everything is a continuum, and, you know, there are movements towards standardization and everybody coming around to something uniform, and then it seems like the pendulum swings back the other way, and things are far more individualized. 

And I think right now, in a myriad of ways, we are back towards there being a lot of differences between the different states. Whereas, you know, during the Obama administration and Common Core, you could say that a lot of folks had been drawn closer together to a set of standards. I think that might be a little bit daunting and perhaps scary for publishers, but I would just caution that… It's kind of like when I visit my extended family in the Midwest, and they ask me if I want a “pop”, and being from Texas, I assume they're going to punch me in the mouth. Whereas what they really mean is, “Do you want a Coke?” And when they come down here, and I ask them if they want a Coke, and they say, “No, I want a Pepsi,” I’d be like, “Well, yeah, obviously you can ask for whatever kind you want.” So, I would agree a lot of what's going to be important in IMRA is understanding the terminology and the priorities that Texas has as a state for its instructional materials, and if you have somebody to help you navigate that, then it shouldn't be that scary at all. 

Rich Portelance 

That's a great analogy, Eric, and I appreciate that, you know, to talk about that nuance and understanding the language that's going on in Texas. If I was going to ask you guys to put on your Nostradamus hats, you know, to predict what's going to happen here a little bit and from a timeline perspective, so here we are today, we're in early September 2024, we're looking ahead. You talked about the legislative session, but what can people expect from the upcoming session and the dates? Is there going to be some point in time where things solidify a little bit, where it's like, okay, if I get to this point, it's going to be a little bit easier, a little bit clearer? Or is it going to remain a little bit unclear going into 2025? What's this look like over the next six to eight months?

Chad Cantella

Rich, why don't I take the first step? I'm gonna have to conclude my interview here, but I know everyone else is going to stay on, and I'm delighted to have this chance, so thank you again. You know, Nostradamus, I always tell folks that the session, right, is like a sporting event–everybody thinks they know what's going to happen, they have game plans and predictions, and then kickoff happens, right? And so, you know, something different usually takes over. With that being said, I think that this session, the attempt is going to be to, you know, further refine the new processes of curriculum adoption, etc., and further refine a lot of the other education policies across the board that are new. We will be having some very high-profile education, you know, debates around school choice this session, which certainly could suck all the oxygen out of the room. 

But for the most part, I think we will, you know, at the end of the session in May, we will potentially have legislation that clarifies this process, that improves it and changes it. I would add, you know, if you're a Texas business constituent, or you even, you know, supply Texas from outside of the state, the legislature does really want to hear from experts, so this is the time to make your thoughts heard, right, is to get them into the discussion because that's when the books are opened up, so to speak, and changes can be made. So if you have things that you want to add, I would recommend you make the appropriate committees know of your thoughts. So… yeah. 

Rich Portelance 

Okay. Thank you very much for joining us. I know you’ve got a slide out, so we'll jump over to Eric, but we appreciate you participating, Chad. 

Michael Jackson

Thanks, Chad. 

Chad Cantella

Thank you all very much. 

Eric Knustrom

Bye, Chad. I would just add that, along the lines of, you know, key indicators to look for, there are a couple of important dates that are coming up. Obviously, the November election will be a turning point one way or the other. Not just at the federal level, but at the state, because of the down-ballot impacts. There are unprecedented amounts of turnovers and incumbents in the state of Texas this election cycle, and that was partially because several incumbents in the Republican party were– lost their primaries and won't be on the ballot this fall. And so, I think the first sign will be how things go in November, and the second big indicator will be early on in session; the House of Representatives will have to reelect a speaker. 

The two-term incumbent speaker is Dade Phelan from the Beaumont area. If he is to retain the speakership, that would send a signal towards continuity–the likelihood that his chairs would remain the committee chairs that are in charge in the coming session, and that means that Chairman Brad Buckley would remain in charge of the public education committee. And the likelihood is that, since HB 1605 was his bill, and a lot of these reforms were compromises that he was able to make with, you know, his own party and with the Democratic Party, that for the major portions of the instructional material policy, the course would remain the same. 

However, if the speaker does not retain the speaker's– If the current speaker, Phelan, does not retain the speaker's chair, I think it will become a far more uncertain picture as to how much will change, how aggressively people who want to revisit last session's adjustments and changes, and, you know, there are going to be at least a couple new faces at the State Board of Education, and one of the departing State Board of Education members is going to be a member of the House of Representatives. And so, that crossover and having that level of connection is something that hasn't happened for those two bodies in quite a while. And as the State Board of Education member who's going to be heading to the House is a Democrat, I think it could lead to some fireworks in this upcoming legislative session. But we will know much more in mid-December, and even more than that during the first week or second week of January.

Rich Portelance

Okay. And that’s– 

Michael Jackson

[Inaudible]

Rich Portelance

Go ahead. 

Michael Jackson

Oh, sorry. You know, and– Eric knows so much about, you know, what's going on at the political level, I guess you might say, but… What we find, too, is that information, and why that's important for companies is that a lot of times they don't understand the importance of how that impacts their solutions in the state of Texas. So, being in front of that and having that intelligence really helps you to make some decisions– strategic decisions in Texas. 

So, you know, what Eric was talking about, if these kinds of changes happen, it's not just like, oh, there's a new person running the show–there's a lot involved from that. So, you know, you have to understand, okay, what does that mean moving forward, and, you know, how does that change our direction for the following year and subsequent years from there? 

Rich Portelance

No, that's a vibe I was picking up on, Mike, and so I was going to tell the audience, you know, if you're listening, then obviously the November elections are critically important; understanding the propensity for change, the things that could occur, is going to be really important. And I guess that's why having a group like yours around this coming session in Texas.

Eric Knustrom

Absolutely. 

Rich Portelance

Yeah. So, let's talk about that, you know, because, you know, all right, I'm, again, looking through the lens of an edtech provider, and I know how EdGate looks at that. You know, we try to be up to date on everything that's happening within a state as best as we can within the world of standards. So, as the new standards are released, we have experts who are going out there and cultivating those, updating them, adding metadata, and doing different things to make sure that they're as prepared as possible. You know, it sounds like what you're doing is somewhat similar. You're really preparing yourself for what's to come; you have your, you know, eye on the ball, and you understand the points at which things can change. 

How do you guide somebody through that process? If I'm thinking to myself, you know, “Hey, maybe I'll call these guys up,” what would I expect– you know, what do you guys do for clients as they approach this market? 

Michael Jackson

Well, I'd say, you know, I'll start it off, and Eric, you can, you know, finish up on your side, but, you know, the first thing we need to understand is what they're trying to accomplish in Texas and where they are. So, that's a little bit of an analysis of, you know, the way they're doing business in Texas, what their experience is with some of the things we talked about before with the IMRA process, and, you know, legislation–really what their objectives are in Texas. You know, how they want to grow. And that takes analysis on the front end to identify that. 

And then from there, you know– So we look at a couple of things: first of all, you know, we look at what their sales and marketing initiatives are, and what they've been doing so far to date; what's working, what's not, and the competitive environment. You know, so we do kind of a deep dive on the analysis side of that, so that way, we can make recommendations, because a lot of times, those– they may have everything in order, right? But what they may be missing is the part that we've been talking a lot about today, is, you know, the lobby side, the government affairs side. And then– But through that analysis, we kind of identify those needs, so… And then Eric, on the lobby side, if you could kind of fill in on that. You know, what is it that you're all looking for when you're talking to clients? What kind of analysis are you doing? 

Eric Knustrom

Yeah. A lot of what we're having conversations about is how the addition of the suitability rubric is going to balance out in practice with the quality rubric, and the previous standard of, essentially, if you met– if the reviewers determined that you met 50%, or covered 50% of the TEKS (Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills), that you were on the SBOE approved list. There is some ambiguity in what will be adopted, what will– For those in the education field, it wouldn't probably be out of line for me to mention cut scores, which are what they use in the A through F rankings for schools and campuses. There is no established cut score currently by the SBOE for what qualifies under the suitability or the quality, or they have stated it, but we have not seen it in practice. So, what exactly is a high enough score, or the bar that you have to reach to be approved as a high-quality tier one in the IMRA process? And what is the bar to clear for suitability? It's been stated, but we haven't seen anybody actually run that race and cross the finish line. And so, that is, I think, important to evaluate and understand. 

And then the other part is that, you know, the process still allows for submission of additional materials during the public comment period, and for an amendment and reconciliation process, which is… a double-edged sword for most publishers. If everybody feels like they've got all of their materials buttoned up and they're ready to go, they don't want anybody to be able to fix anything or correct it. But also, I've seen people who were 100% confident that they didn't– that… things popped up, and there were changes that the board wanted to see, and those changes needed to be made or the material wasn't going to be adopted. So, I think it's important for them at this point to remember it's the process, and it's the first time anybody's gone through the process, so if you're willing to engage, and if you're willing to come to the table with solutions and not just complaints, I think both the State Board and TEA are open to hearing constructive ways in which the process can be commented on and improved upon. And we'd like to help facilitate those conversations. 

Rich Portelance

Okay.

Michael Jackson

Yeah. And Rich, real quickly, I’d like to add to what Eric said. You know, if you're– if you're not familiar with the world that, you know, from government affairs, lobbyists, and some of the things we talked about today, there's a couple of strategies that when we work with clients we do, so it's– you know, there's short-term strategies and long-term strategies, so– and they're parallel, so, you know, when we work with a client, what we're looking for is how can we start impacting what you're doing in the state of Texas now? You know, by growing sales, visibility, exposure, and so on and so forth– and building relationships. But there's also a long-term play, and what we mean by that is this is not just this next session, you know, how we can help you–it's really, it’s– we look for evergreen clients, you know, that when they look at Texas, they look at it as, like, this is part of our team–for our growth in Texas–and we need this in Texas to make sure that year, after year, after year, that we're represented at the state-level side, but we also have intelligence on what's going on. So, just to make sure that that's clear, you know, it’s a short-term strategy and a long-term strategy, so you’ve got to be willing to play the game and just stay in the game.

Closing Thoughts

Rich Portelance

Yep. That's really helpful, Michael, thank you. I know for the podcast that's coming up, we're putting together some resources for people: one is a kind of a consolidated guidebook on adoption in Texas; the other is a checklist. So those things will be available if you sign up for the upcoming webinar, which is September 26th, and we're hoping that a lot of people do sign up; they're going to get more information, and again, we're bringing in also clients, people from the other side of the fence; Learning.com is going to join us, and they're going to give some information on their perspective on Texas, adoption, etc. As we close out the session today, any last words or thoughts that you would want to leave people with, Michael and Eric, on what's happening in Texas, and what the next best step should be?

Michael Jackson

Well, I mean, I know this sounds shallow, but if you, you know– throwing a cowboy hat on and some cowboy boots isn't going to hurt you coming into Texas, so… 

Eric Knustrom

You don't have to root for the Cowboys, or the Texans, or one of the college teams, but it wouldn't hurt if you did. But my suggestion, honestly, would be there's a few really good resources for getting broad strokes on what's going on in the legislature, like The Texas Tribune; their reporting–especially on the education side–is very good. So is The Dallas Morning News, but, you know, TEA’s website has a plethora–as a big fan of Three Amigos–of different listservs that you can sign up for that will update you on things like the administrator address and the rules changes that they're considering, and while those can be harder to read than tax code sometimes, subscribing to those just so you can get a general sense of what parts of statutory implementation they're working on, or what areas they're discussing when it comes to instruction materials is a good way to feel like you are either really confident with where you are and where things are going, or potentially that there's some things that you're going to need help with. And if there are things there that you don't know about, then it might be time to reach out. 

Rich Portelance

Okay, thank you. And I'll have our editors put the TEA link to those different listservs down in the comments below so people can find it. That's a great suggestion, thank you. Michael? 

Michael Jackson

Yeah, no, I– And to wrap it up too, I was you about to chat with that, but… Yeah, I mean, you know, coming into Texas, I said it at the beginning of the call, but you really, you know, what we find is that companies that come in–I see this all the time–you know, they come in and say, “Yeah, we're going to go and dominate Texas.” And, you know, because it's such a big market. But, you know, don't… My suggestion is, don't come into Texas and say, “Look, we've got the best thing.” You know, come into Texas, be part of Texas, and really understand the market, and treat it like it's its own country, because it really is. You know, I know I'm a proud Texan, but it really is a completely different market, and you really need to understand that to be successful. 

Rich Portelance

Well, that's super helpful, thank you. You know, and it's– I think it's a quality thought for people to really look at this and take it seriously. There's a lot of nuance, a lot of uniqueness to the Texas marketplace, and you can't just go in carelessly; you have to go in there and really work hard to understand it, and like you said, as much as you can, be a Texan and think like a Texan, and maybe you'll have some opportunity to get in the door there. Eric, any last thoughts before we close it out? 

Eric Knustrom

No, I just appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. When I go to happy hours and start talking about instructional material adoption, my wife blames me for us not getting invited to stuff, so this was refreshing. 

Rich Portelance

I would imagine! Well, gentlemen, thank you very much for your time today, and we look forward to further opportunities to speak with you. Enjoy the rest of your Wednesday! 

Eric Knustrom

Awesome. 

Michael Jackson

Thank you. Thanks, Rich.