The following transcript has been edited for readability. Timestamps have been removed and minor transcription errors corrected. Speaker comments and context have been preserved.

Opening Remarks

Rich Portelance

Welcome everyone. My name is Richard Portelance. I am your host of the EdGate Powers podcast. Today, I'm excited to be with Lisa O’Masta, the CEO of Learning.com.

In a couple of weeks, on December 17th, we're going to be doing a webinar. Lisa will be there, along with Keven Ellis from the Texas State Board of Education and Hillary Knudson from Whiteboard Advisors, and we're going to be talking about the paradigm shift that's occurring in K-12 education, how states are redefining standards, and the skills needed for the future of work. 

So, I want to give Lisa a chance to say hello and introduce herself, and then we're going to talk about this portrait of a graduate, publisher, and edtech perspectives, and preparing learners for digital futures. Lisa?

Lisa O’Masta

Fantastic. Good morning. Thanks, Rich.

Hi, my name is Lisa O’Masta. I am the CEO for Learning.com, and we are an organization very much focused on what it means to help schools, districts, and states create healthy and proficient relationships with technology. And so I've been in the education space for… gosh,  over 25 years, and I'm really excited to be here. So, thank you, Rich, for having me.

Rich Portelance

Oh, you're welcome, we're just so excited. 

Discussion

Rich Portelance

And I guess I want to start off, you've been focused– Learning.com has been focused on helping students build digital literacy and technology skills they need for the future. How does that mission connect with the broader goals of a portrait of a graduate movement?

Lisa O’Masta

Yeah, that's a great question. 

So, you know, our mission has always been centered around helping students really build digital skills for themselves that they need to thrive. But it's not just to use technology, but to really understand it, to question it, and use it kind of really responsibly. And so, that aligns perfectly if you think about the portrait of the graduate movement, because both are about really preparing students for life, not just for math and literacy, right? And so, when states define their graduate profiles, whether they call them future-ready skills, durable skills, or even digital competencies, they're describing the very outcomes that we've been championing for almost over 25 years at this point. And so, we've been giving students practical and ethical skills, and that foundation to navigate really a tech-driven world with confidence. 

Rich Portelance

And as it quickly changes, you know, it's like Moore's law; it just continues to go faster and faster as we get deeper into the future.

From your vantage point as both an educator, an education publisher, and an edtech leader, what trends are you seeing as states redefine what future-ready means for students? Particularly as AI and emerging technologies are reshaping these expectations?

Lisa O’Masta

Yeah, you know, I think about it in terms of, kind of, the evolution of what future-ready really means. And it's no longer just about mastering the tools, right? It's about developing adaptability, digital discernment, and the ability to learn continuously as technology changes, right? Because it's not– you know, we have the worst technology we will ever have right now. And so, it's about career exploration and awareness, right? Students shouldn't have to kind of wait until high school to start connecting the dots in terms of understanding how technology works. 

And so, we're looking at it from as early as kindergarten, even pre-kindergarten, when students begin to, like, learn how to navigate technology, really think critically and solve problems, and communicate using those digital tools. And so, kind of think about it like laying the groundwork for understanding how some of those skills really are applying in kind of everything that they do. And so, starting to connect it– whether you're a kindergartener and you want to be, you know, a truck driver or a trash collector, which I know for my own grandson, that's what he wants to be. And so, all the way to healthcare, designing bridges, etc., and so I think so much of that evolution now is around connecting it earlier in the process so that students are learning what doors might be open to them in the future. But it also has to be more than that; it has to be about being safe and smart online, right? To making sure that we're creating critical thinkers, and how to use these technologies responsibly, ethically, and with purpose.

Rich Portelance

Well, I think that's a great point, and I love the idea of, you know, lifelong learners, because things do change quickly, and how do we adapt to it, and this– you started off saying, you know, the technology today is the worst technology that we will know. So, you know, how do you keep adjusting to that new technology that's going to get better and better and faster and faster?

How do you see the role of companies like Learning.com evolve as states and districts look beyond the traditional academics towards durable skills, like critical thinking, collaboration and digital citizenship?

Lisa O’Masta

Yeah, we have a responsibility. We have a responsibility to lead with both innovation and integrity. And so, schools are being asked to do more with less while everything around them is changing faster than ever. And so, our role takes on a different place in terms of, kind of, we want to be able to remove some of the complexity off our schools’, districts’, and teachers’ plates, and to provide them with curriculum, resources, and tools that are, you know, whether it's research-based standards aligned, and then making them really easy to implement, so that they can continue to help move things forward. But, you know, I think about that in terms of it has to go beyond the digital skills, right? We have to help students and even teachers be able to translate those skills back into the workforce. 

And so, we think about it in terms of, you know, expanding around career awareness, again, as soon as kindergarten, and helping students understand early on how that technology– you know, I remember when I was in school, it's like, “Why did I learn this? Why did I learn this?” Because when am I going to use this in school or in life? And so, it's about giving them confidence, it's about giving them the direction, and that sense of kind of possibility, and I feel like that's a responsibility that companies like ours and all organizations really have, and we're– in terms of how we're making sure we're preparing them, and connecting the dots for the future.

Rich Portelance

That's an interesting point. I know with EdGate, you know, early on, making alignment to education standards, there was some level of perfection in that process, but with CTE standards and doing those alignments, it's part of our mission to get everything aligned so students can learn and develop those skills. But CTE is so big, so broad, and so differentiated that we can't use the same technologies to do the alignments, because every– you could have entrepreneurship CTE credentials in every state, and in every state they're completely different. So, some of the baseline that we would use to, you know, kind of say that if we align one state, we can align most states, it doesn't exist. So, it changes the process, but the importance, the critical nature of it has just come to the forefront over the last couple of years. We see CTE as… not necessarily more important than academic, but, you know, equally as important as companies like yours are developing the curriculum and helping to build future-ready learners. So, it's a fascinating time.

So, let's talk a little bit about standard skills aligning across states, you know, which I was kind of poorly setting up there, but I think you'll do a better job. Each state has its own academic standards and framework. You know, Texas has TEKS; others have the portrait of a graduate profile or initiatives. How does Learning.com navigate this patchwork to ensure the content aligns to each state's expectations, and like you said, you know, ready for the future means different things to different states, and we all define it?

Lisa O’Masta

Whether it's a portrait of the graduate or the TEKS, for us, alignment isn't just about compliance, right? It's a part of how we ensure teachers can focus on instruction instead of translation, right? And so, if you think about that from that perspective, our platform really allows us to map out our content directly to each state's standards. And I think that's absolutely important, because that structure frees teachers up to do what they do best, right? Teach, which is what we want them focused on; in developing those in important relationships with students. And so, while we handle the complexity and, obviously, with EdGate, and in terms of great support, we can handle that complexity. It also helps us to stay close to states as they evolve, so that when new digital literacy or new AI competencies emerge, we're ready to be able to respond, quickly keep them aligned, and make sure that the teachers don't have to think about that.

Rich Portelance

Okay. 

And then there's this balance between innovation and compliance, right? What– well, I guess what's the balance then in your mind of meeting these strict alignments and standards, and designing content that's truly innovative and skill forward as AI comes out and other digital technologies? 

Lisa O’Masta

Yeah, you know, I feel like there's this– there's always a tension between kind of building content that checks the box versus creating really meaningful experiences that inspire learning. So, as I think about it, that balance comes from remembering that compliance is the floor, not the ceiling. And I think that's an important part for us. We designed to meet every standard, but we innovate to engage students and make it as simple as possible for schools and districts using interactive, really age-appropriate digital scenarios that teach them to think critically, collaborate, and solve problems that go way beyond a checklist. So, as states start to incorporate AI and digital citizenship into their standards, it gives us permission to push that even further. And so, looking at that, we want to show that standards alignment and skill-forward innovation can actually strengthen each other when we bring that balance together.

Rich Portelance

Okay. 

And connecting to CTE and core academics, how are you seeing digital literacy and technology integration support both core subjects and CTE pathways that reflect future-ready competencies?

Lisa O’Masta

You know, I've always kind of thought about, like, digital citizenship– I'm sorry, digital literacy, which has always kind of sat in the back of the room. You know, it's been this side thing that's happened for such a long time. And what's exciting for me right now is what you're seeing is that it’s becoming more of a connective tissue that links core academics and the CTE pathways, right? And so, whether students are learning to analyze data and science, communicate ideas and language arts, you know, we're enabling them to explore technology in career modules. So, those skills start to overlap and reinforce each other. So, if you think about kind of that excitement where students can start to see, okay, this digital skill, this, you know, whether they are learning how to use anything from a spreadsheet, to how to create a prompt, they can start to see how that applies in the real world, and how those same competencies they use, they're using them to make sure that they're research-based, they're responsible, they can create multimedia projects, for example. And that they start to understand, “Oh, by doing this, this is actually just a foundation of what that technical career looks like.” And so, they can start to make those connections much earlier on in the process, and then they can transfer those skills everywhere after graduation.

Rich Portelance

I would think that the students wouldn't have a problem picking up on that. How are the teachers doing in terms of adapting to some of those changes?

Lisa O’Masta

You know, I think it's less about their willingness and more about just the time and the ability to think in terms of, like, I just need, you know, one more thing that they have in their day. And so one of the things I think is so unbelievably important is that we make it so easy to just plug in, and that it's something that's just seamlessly integrated into that process so that it's not just one more thing for educators. And I know anything that's going to help engage students and excite them to want to be in class and be engaged in the conversation, they're going to embrace. 

Rich Portelance

Yeah. My wife happens to be a high school art teacher, and, you know, I hear the war stories every day of trying to integrate new things. You know, some of the challenges that go on. But I think the important thing about having classes like the arts integrated into the curriculum is that it helps to foster a different level of thinking. And so, it allows those students to flourish in some of these other CT areas and see that capacity, because every student's learning slightly differently, right? 

Lisa O’Masta

That’s right.

Rich Portelance

So, I give a lot of credit to those teachers, because it's not an easy thing as we individualize and personalize learning more and more, right?

Lisa O’Masta

I couldn't have said it better myself. I agree. 

Rich Portelance

So, let's talk a little bit about AI.

It's really, you know, I've had conversations almost daily about how much this is affecting people's work-life balance and different aspects of companies. It's changing the workforce and classroom experience. How do you see edtech products like yours, Learning.com, help schools move forward from awareness to practical application of AI literacy and digital discernment?

Lisa O’Masta

Yeah. 

Whether it's AI literacy or any of these kinds of… arguably future-ready skills, it's not something you can tack on in the end, right? We've been talking about that. They live inside that kind of ongoing learning experience. So, when we think about it, our curriculum is designed so that when students engage with technology, they're simultaneously practicing, whether it's collaboration and problem solving. 

So one of the… there's a lesson that we have that's one of my favorites when I think about it from an AI integration perspective. We have a sixth-grade lesson where the teacher will pull up the TikTok license agreement. It's like 70-plus pages. She'll then put it into an AI tool, and then give it a prompt that says, “Show the students how TikTok's license agreement is using the content that students create”. And students are blown away by– they didn't even realize it. So by the end of the class, honestly, half the students are deleting the apps from their phones. And so, you know, thinking about what that integration looks like, it's– because it's the kind of awareness we're trying to build. It's about the discernment that every lesson reinforces that technology is a tool to create and to think critically, and so to make smart choices. It's not just about, “Here's how AI works”, but how you can leverage those tools and integrate them into everything you're talking about.

Rich Portelance

Oh, wow. I think that's fantastic and such a relevant topic for these students. And now they're understanding something that they think they understand better than teachers or parents, but now you've added a twist and something that they can dig in and say, "Oh, wow. I didn't realize.", and it helps make that learning more sticky, I would think.

Lisa O’Masta

Yeah. I think there's… I mean, I have a fundamental belief that when kids know better, they do better, right? And so, most of the time, they just don't know. They don't understand the impact of some of the things that they're doing, or even the ripple effect that these things can have on themselves, on their peers, on their careers, on their lives, you know, decades later.

Rich Portelance

Yeah, agreed. 

In terms– and so, you know, teaching these skills, then you have to assess, what is it– what does measuring future-ready skills look like in a digital curriculum today?

Lisa O’Masta

Yeah. It's about capturing real changes in behavior and mindset, right? And so, you know, I was talking to a seventh grader once in Arizona here at a school district, and I was asking her, I was like, “You know, you've been using our materials for a while. What do you think about it?” And she's like, "Oh, you know, I don't really use social media. I don't really do those things." And I was like, "No?", so I asked, "Well, how many followers do you have?", and she's like, "Well, 672.", which made me chuckle a little bit. So, clearly, she, you know, she does use it. And I was like, you know, “Is there anything that you can say you've taken away?”, and she said, “Well, I guess there's one thing.” She's like, “Now before I post, I think to myself, well, how would I feel if my mom saw this?” It's that moment, right? It's that pause of reflection. That's what success looks like. 

And so, how do you evaluate that? It's hard to measure; it's hard to measure that kind of growth. But we're starting to use things like sentiment scores, for example, and scenario-based assessments to help, kind of, understand how things are changing, reflect on their own thinking, and how that thinking has evolved. So, I think it's really around creating that awareness that leads to responsible action that we're really thinking about, and that's the ultimate goal, especially when we think about that digital literacy component.

Rich Portelance

And how can folks like yourselves and technology providers support educators in tracking student growth in areas that aren't easily captured on tests?

Lisa O’Masta

Like I said, sentiment scores, I think, are probably at least a starting point. Starting to see behaviors, I think there are elements, for example, in the classroom, whether it's the number of instances that are going on, the number of cyberbullying activities, are you seeing things, you know, with all of the technology monitoring going on? Are you seeing reductions? Campus culture is another one, for example. Are you starting to see improvements in the culture? So, it might not necessarily be, you know, from math, science, and reading kind of assessments, but we need to start looking at other ways and other different data points that the school districts and we're collecting, and we can start to look at, you know, are there synergies and opportunities to reflect on those pieces? 

Rich Portelance

Okay. 

I want to talk a little bit about, you know, working with states and districts. 

I want to remind everybody that's listening that, on December 17th, there's probably a link below in the description for the webinar. Lisa will be there, Hillary Knudson from Whiteboard Advisors, and Keven Ellis from the Texas State Board of Education. We're going to be talking about some of these topics and subjects in more detail, and figuring out, you know, what does a portrait of a graduate look like, and what are the paradigm shifts that are happening in K12 today with technology.

So, you know, getting back to collaboration, how does Learning.com collaborate with state agencies, curriculum teams, and local educators to ensure your solutions are relevant and aligned to emerging frameworks like a portrait of a graduate?

Lisa O’Masta

Yeah. Collaboration, honestly, Rich, is the heart of everything we do. We work hand in hand with state agencies and districts to make sure what we're building works into their frameworks. Whether that's, like you said, digital literacy standards, portrait of a graduate goals, or emerging AI competencies, we really think about how alignment isn't just about standards on paper; it's about relevance in practice. And so we spend a lot of time listening to teachers, and we talk to curriculum leaders to understand their challenges, and then we start shaping our solutions to make sure we're fitting that. And that's really how we've earned the trust of so many states around the country. And so, we show up as a true partner, and that's, you know, in terms of thinking about that, not just as a vendor. And so, in terms of thinking about that, like, what does that look like for future-ready learning in the classrooms in every context?

Rich Portelance

No, that's terrific. You know, if you haven't… Lisa, if you haven't, or if the audience hasn't listened to my interview with Kevin Ellis, which should be on our YouTube channel as well, you know, he was talking about how Texas does things regionally. And so, kind of to that same point, Texas is really looking at what skills are needed within that particular region, based on the type of employer, the type of jobs availability, and how they're bringing that back down so that they're teaching the students these skills that get a little bit more specific, so that they can get into the job market, have success, and support the local economy. You know, those types of things, I think they've existed for a long time, but not to that detail, and getting back to the vendors that are supporting the schools like yourselves, you know, it's really kind of going through the entire spectrum, right?

Lisa O’Masta

That's right. Yeah, for sure.

Rich Portelance

So, in terms of public-private partnerships, and helping states bring the portrait of a graduate vision to life at scale, what's the role of these partnerships?

Lisa O’Masta

You know, I think states have big ambitions, right? They have goals around, whether it's digital citizenship, AI readiness, and career-connected learning, but they can't do it alone. And I think they understand that, and we understand that. And so, when industry and education come together, we can really move faster and design with both innovation and equity in mind, which is fantastic. We've seen this play out in states where partnerships have helped bring digital literacy to every student, regardless of the district size or funding level, which is so unbelievably important. And it's about leveraging each other's strengths. States provide the vision and the reach, and companies like Learning.com bring the expertise, the data, and the agility to make that vision operational. 

Rich Portelance

And are you seeing any states that are kind of further ahead in terms of structure and practice?

Lisa O’Masta

Yeah, we have some fantastic partnerships with North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia. They've been just doing some really innovative things for quite some time, and we've been great partners working with them in terms of kind of thinking about both from the perspective of what they bring in terms of that vision, expertise, and advocacy, and us working with them to help their students and educators understand kind of, what is that AI readiness, the digital citizenship and digital literacy. I've been really, really impressed. 

Rich Portelance

That's fantastic. It's good to hear that there are states that are taking the lead and forging change, and others can follow. And it's not just a, you know, education tends to be a little bit of a follower's market. So, you need those leaders out there and, you know, not be so afraid to “disrupt the apple cart”, so to speak.

Lisa O’Masta

Well, take a look at what North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia are doing. I mean, they just happen to be sitting on top of each other, but I will tell you, they're doing some pretty impressive things in this area. There are some other great states that we've seen as well, but those three have definitely been leading the way. 

Rich Portelance

Okay, we will do that, and we'll have to find some people to talk to from those states. So, that'll be something on our agenda. 

Lisa O’Masta

Happy to help.

Rich Portelance

Thank you for that. 

So, in terms of publisher collaboration beyond being just competitors, do you see opportunities for edtech providers and publishers to collaborate around shared definitions of future-ready learning? 

Lisa O’Masta

Yeah, I think there is definitely a real opportunity for it in terms of working together. Things like interoperability, ethical AI use, and integration of digital and academic skills. Obviously, collaboration allows us to create more kind of cohesive experiences for educators and for our students. And I think as we look at that, we align our goals and standards. We can make it easier for teachers to focus on learning instead of really, just, managing a patchwork of disconnected tools. So I genuinely believe that the next wave of innovation in education will come from partnerships built on kind of that shared purpose, not necessarily just competition. So, for example, one of the things that, you know, there's– whether it's aiEDU, or some of these AI frameworks that are coming out, those are really helpful, because it's kind of setting a baseline that we can all build in terms of those AI competencies, and is a great example. We're already starting to see that happen.

Rich Portelance

Oh, that's fantastic. You know, it's… yeah, I see these waves that I– you know, who knows what's going to happen in the future, but when we saw the rise of the Common Core, there was a reason for that, which was building some of those baselines and structures, and then, you know, it's fallen apart and changed. Now everybody's taking and doing their own thing, but, you know, there are some components that you hope can come back together so that you have that framework to go forward from and some commonality, right? 

Lisa O’Masta

That's right.

Rich Portelance

Yeah. 

So, equity access and the digital divide. You know, when we take a look at it from the equity lens, access to technology and high-quality digital instruction remains pretty uneven. How does Learning.com help ensure that all learners, regardless of their zip code, gain the skills needed to thrive in a tech-driven world? 

Lisa O’Masta

Yeah, you know, technology is only as empowering when every student has access. Whether it's to the devices, the curriculum, to the adults who can help them navigate that safely. So, a lot of our state-level coursework focuses on supporting rural, remote, high-need districts. And that's, you know, we have great examples of that in, say, Florida and Mississippi, where they're really much, very much focused on making sure that every student has access. And districts can buy those directly, or they can work with those state partnerships as well. And that's really looking to make sure that our solutions are affordable and available to every student regardless of their circumstances. 

And so, what we do is we try to focus on removing some of those barriers. Digital literacy isn't something reserved for, kind of the well-resourced schools, but a foundational right, really, and responsibility for all learners. And so, we design content that works for all kinds of learning environments, and we want to make sure schools have the support they need to bring that to life in every classroom.

Rich Portelance

So, along that same line, are you seeing changes based on some schools and some states now putting in requirements for phones to go, you know, be put away before they get into a classroom, or before they come to school in different circumstances?

Lisa O’Masta

Yeah. You know, schools and districts are taking different routes, right? You know, there's school– you know, cell phone bans are becoming– I think it's now in almost 33 different states where school cell phone bans are becoming kind of a standard. And… you know, if you think about that, and kind of– yes, it helps to eliminate distractions, but you're not giving students the skills that they need in order to be able to navigate outside of that individual classroom. And so, when you– kind of going back to that equity lens piece, it's important that we don't just ban, but that we ban and we teach. And so, that's such an unbelievably important part of the conversation, and something we work a lot with states to kind of partner with to say, "Okay, we understand the need to ban to remove those distractions. Now, let's make sure we're giving those students the skills and the tools they need at the same time." 

Rich Portelance

And along that same line, how are you helping teachers build their own competence around the competencies, teaching, and digital skills for the future?

Lisa O’Masta

Yeah. You know, we focus on building teachers' comfort and confidence. So many times, it's the technology that scares teachers. Oftentimes we'll hear, "Well, I don't want to be embarrassed by my students. My students know more than I do." And so, one of the things that we've heard a lot of is, you know, especially with AI literacy, this desire to wait, right? Let's teach our teachers first, and then we have to get our students taught. And so, what's really exciting is when… and a big focus of what we do is when teachers and students actually get to learn together. And so, kind of moving away from let's train the teachers first and then move that, and then what does it look like to make sure that teachers and students are learning side by side? 

AI is a great example of that. It's powerful to see classrooms where both students and teachers are discovering together responsibly and creatively. They have shared learning experiences which, honestly, not only build the teachers' confidence; it actually creates lifelong learning for the students, and that relationship is further solidified. It's actually beautiful when you see the students and the teachers learning together, and AI literacy is a perfect time for that, because we can't wait. Students are creating, right now, habits. And so, if we sit around and kind of wait for the teachers to figure it out, the students are going to be so far advanced. Learning together is the best approach on so many different levels. 

Rich Portelance

That's a beautiful analogy and story of how things are coming together when teachers and students can learn together. I think everybody's empowered and feels good about that. 

Do you have some local success stories that highlight the examples of districts and states partnering that have done particularly well to integrate these competencies into the curriculum using Learning.com or similar tools?

Lisa O’Masta

Yeah, you know, Texas has been a really great example. With their new Texas standards, they focused heavily on the integration of digital literacy into their core instruction. And so, you're seeing this desire for, kind of, collaboration between the technology folks in the school districts in Texas, and then the curriculum side, and going, “Okay, this can't just continue to stay over here as a separate item. We have to start thinking and bringing those things together.” So some examples include: students are learning to collaborate online in, say, social studies, for example. And, you know, what does it look like in terms of a specific lesson focused on the technology that they're learning, and how that can then be applied to that social studies class. Or maybe it's an ethics class where they're learning how to write critically, and how do you talk about making sure, at the same time they're learning how to write critically, you're also then talking about what does it mean? What does fake data look like? And what does the integration of this look like? And what's plagiarism? And helping understand those AI pieces, and we're seeing a lot of that in Texas. We're also seeing it in Arizona in different schools. Chandler USD (Chandler Unified School District) in Arizona has been another great one as well. So, it's been really exciting to see how they're starting to bring those pieces together.

Rich Portelance

Oh, that's fantastic. 

Let's talk a little bit about, you know, your view and publishers’ view on policy. How do you see evolving state policy, like the Texas Future Ready Initiative, or portrait of a graduate frameworks that now include AI and digital literacy standards, shape the direction of the edtech and publishing industry?

Lisa O’Masta

Yeah. You know, the alignment between policy and practical is critical, obviously, right? So states are looking for partners who can translate policy into action, and that's where we can really help them thrive. We help states kind of operationalize their goals so that every student, again, whether urban, rural, or suburban, they can access that high-quality instruction that builds that discernment, and really helps them prepare for whatever comes.

So good policy sets the vision, and then that partnership, as we talked about earlier, is really kind of in the classroom where we can help support and bring that vision to life.

Rich Portelance

And are there other states that are doing a good job in setting those policies? I imagine everybody's kind of grabbing into it. You talked a little bit about South Carolina, North Carolina, and Georgia in terms of some of their advancement, but in terms of policy setting, do you see any other states that stand out?

Lisa O’Masta

So, West Virginia has put out some great policies just recently. I think there's, you know, we just– we're launching a free AI policy tool for states, schools, and districts–and actually in another two weeks–and that policy tool will just be a guide to help them. It's a GPT (Generative Pre-trained Transformer) that we've created specifically to allow the educators to kind of just think through their own policies. I've seen West Virginia put out a policy–I think it was actually about a month ago–that was really kind of helping to frame what that needs to look like, and helping schools and districts really think through their policies. I've seen Ohio do something very similar as well. 

And so, I still think there's this balance and this grappling. There's so much… need to say, “I already know the answer”, when I think there's a little bit of fear for policymakers to say, “I don't actually know what to do here”. And so, part of the goal is to make it safe to not necessarily have all the answers, and our GPT will allow them to kind of be thoughtful in that approach. So we want to help our states to be able to do that, and the states that are doing a really great job of it, using those as models, so that's been great. 

Rich Portelance

It takes a lot of, you know, there's like a fear factor, right? 

Lisa O’Masta

There is a fear factor, and I think it's unfortunate that it's not okay to say, “I don't know” and that “I need help”, right? Because that's not allowing for that natural curiosity that I think will help to support better outcomes.

Rich Portelance

Yeah. And we teach our children that, so it's important to remember those lessons. 

Lisa O’Masta

That's right.

Rich Portelance

So, looking ahead, what do you think the curriculum will need to look like in five or 10 years to truly serve this next generation of learners?

Lisa O’Masta

Hard question, right? You know, curriculum has to be about adaptive, kind of human-centered design that's grounded in authentic experiences. It's so unbelievably important, because it's going to create that engagement for students. And so, for us, it's not just about the technology skills; it's, again, weaving them into every subject into every student's story. And so, I often like to think about digital literacy as a thread; like this vital thing as important as literacy and math. And so, it becomes almost like another language that they have to learn to speak fluently. And that's that language of, you know, how digital works, how to navigate it responsibly, how do we use it to create and communicate? You know, what do students understand in terms of that language? And then, how do they use it to find their own voice to create in very constructive ways? 

And so, I think what we're designing now is for the future, and where digital fluency, creativity, and kind of critical thinking are fully intertwined. That's the kind of future of our learning experiences that we have to do.

Rich Portelance

That idea of authentic experiences really stands out to me. It seems like, you know, it makes a ton of sense if it's applicable, and, you know, those authentic experiences may change over time, but that curriculum can meet them and get them to the point where, you know, they can apply it. That seems like a home run.

Lisa O’Masta

Well, and you asked earlier about, kind of, like, how you use AI within the organization. So obviously, we're very much focused on teaching it, but it's because of these AI advances that allow what you just talked about to happen so much more easily. Like, so now, if I'm a rural student who maybe's never even… you know, maybe I haven't seen the ocean, or I don't know what a big city looks like, I can actually create and cultivate an authentic experience that not only helps me understand where I am today, but some of the other experiences that are happening outside of my direct world. That's pretty cool.

Rich Portelance

That is pretty cool. 

So, you know, there's the ethics of AI. How do we ensure that we're embracing these technologies, AI, and learning, and we also reinforce human- centered skills like empathy, collaboration, and ethical decision-making?

Lisa O’Masta

Yeah. I mean, we really have to stay grounded in what might make us human. You know, I think about– students need to learn, you know, not just how to use the technology, but how to use it wisely with empathy, right? Ethics and respect. That includes knowing when and how to put the devices away. You know, we actually, in our program, we actually talk as much about how to use them as to know when to put them down. And so, helping create those healthy boundaries, and making sure that students are understanding that part of this is understanding that there's an addiction factor, right? Where do you put them away? It's not just about fear and restriction; it's about awareness, right? We talked about responsibility, and we want students to develop judgment, right? 

And one of the examples I always think about is like the food pyramid, right? We talk about, you know, healthy habits at every level. We can't just take food away from kids, right? That doesn't work. You have to teach them those same things. Technology is the same thing. And so, what does it mean to keep that human element as a part of this? Recognizing that it's going to be here for a long, long time? We want to graduate young people who are not only skilled, but grounded and self-aware of the impact all these pieces have, and how to manage it for themselves in healthy ways.

Rich Portelance

It's fascinating, because I don't think that… it's not something that's typically taught when you– when you talk about empathy as a definable skill. The word I think has become more popular today than it was probably when I was a kid. But, you know, I found as a business leader, and an entrepreneur, and the things that I do, there's no more valuable skill than having that empathy, and understanding– you know, truly understanding kind of where people are and trying to meet them there. It's a hard skill. 

How do you bake that in? You know, do you guys think about, “How do we do this in a meaningful way?”

Lisa O’Masta

So, I like to think about, you know… I'll use cheating as a perfect example. So, I know in terms of it, in all of my years in this education space, you always hear cheating is the number one concern in terms of it. And I'll connect this back to empathy in just a minute, but if you think about… kids who are going to cheat are going to cheat. Kids who are going to bully are going to bully. All we've done is given them different tools, mechanisms, and a way to do that. And so, I think that– if you think about it, a portrait of a graduate is a perfect example about those durable skills of empathy, about ethics, and about integrity. The tools are just changing the skills around what it means to be a good human being. 

So, within our program, we do talk about the impacts of it. So, yes, we talk about how cyberbullying is a real thing. What does empathy look like? Are you being cyberbullied? Are you cyberbullying? What does that look like? Again, going back to when they know better, they do better. But, you know, helping kids understand the impacts of their behavior, the ripple effect, will enable them to go, "Oh, I can think about it that way.", or, "Oh, I didn't realize that when my behavior did that." And I think just helping them understand their impact, their role, can help them make different choices and understand that impact over time.

Rich Portelance

That's a great reflection. Thank you. 

If we start to look at, you know, what education leaders need to do, if you had to give some advice to state or district leaders as they try to align their standards and programs with these new frameworks, like portrait of a graduate, what would that advice be?

Lisa O’Masta

The world is changing fast, and waiting for perfect, whether it's the policy or the plan, just delays that progress. So I would say, focus on building a foundation of digital literacy and AI awareness early in every grade and every classroom. And then partner with organizations like us to translate your vision into action. You know, don't wait for perfect–it's not going to happen. And don't wait for your teachers to know everything; don't wait for, you know, your parents to be completely on board and comfortable. You have to move forward because if you don't, you're going to leave your kids behind.

Rich Portelance

I think that's a great way to set your mind, and I'm sure people will understand that because there's got to be a lot of hesitancy, right? And concern. But if you wait, you're going to get left behind. 

So I do have one more question, and then I want you to be able to, you know, pose anything that you would like, Lisa, but I want to remind everybody that on December 17th, we'll have Lisa on our webinar with Keven and Hillary. It's going to be a great conversation, just as this one has been a great conversation. So please join us, click the link below, register, and we'll have plenty of opportunity to explore some of these topics a little bit deeper. 

So, in terms of a vision for the future, how do we ensure that as AI technology and technology advances, we also reinforce human-centered skills, like empathy and collaboration, we're just talking about those, and ethical decision-making, so that students build healthy and proficient relationships with technology?

Lisa O’Masta

And I'll apply this to students, to teachers, to families, to communities. I picture people who are confident, curious, and compassionate. And I think curious and compassionate– I mean, obviously confidence is important, but curious and compassionate are so important. Somebody who kind of understands how to use technology to solve problems, but then knows when to put it away, right? Knows how to kind of find that balance. They're digital fluent, for sure, but also self-aware. And they know when to lean on things and when to lean on the technology, and when to step away. And then they're really thoughtful in terms of what they share online. They're thoughtful about discerning the information that they consume, right? That not everything is fact. That they're, again, going back to that curiosity, that they're open to learning, learning new tools, and the world evolving around them. And so, if we can get, whether it's students graduating that are safe and smart, really grounded in both skill and empathy, then I think we can do more to prepare them for their careers than ever before. And I think not only do our students need to have that, but our teachers also need to have that, our administrators need to have that, our families, and then I think, in that case, we've started to really prepare them to thrive. 

And that's a world that I want to see. And I think that, you know, at Learning.com, we can be a big part of helping to shape that, and we already are.

Rich Portelance

You are clearly passionate about building lifelong learners. That's where you started off today, right? I love that concept, and it was reinforced throughout the conversation today on how we can do that as a community, right? Not just the schools, not just the teachers, but as parents and fellow citizens to help each other become lifelong learners and develop these wonderful skills. So, I thank you for that and your reflections. 

Closing Thoughts

Rich Portelance

Is there anything that you would like to, you know, in conclusion that you think is really important in terms of this topic?

Lisa O’Masta

You know, I think Rich, first, thank you for having this conversation, and for engaging in kind of supporting the dialogue around what it means here, not only just around the technology skills.

I would say, for us at Learning.com, we're so much focused on, you know, we talk about the technology, we talk about the skills, and we have to remember there's a human being behind that, and the skills are only a tool, right? Technology is only a tool to embody one other thing. In five years from now, there's going to be something else, and in the five years from that there's going to be something else. And so, again, being curious, making sure that we think of ourselves as human beings and the empathy that we bring, and teaching students how to find their voice in healthy and safe ways, I think is absolutely important. 

And so I appreciate that. Thank you for the conversation.

Rich Portelance

You're welcome. And thank you for joining us on the EdGate Powers podcast. We'll see you in a few weeks on our webinar, and I hope you have a wonderful Friday.