The following transcript has been edited for readability. Timestamps have been removed and minor transcription errors corrected. Speaker comments and context have been preserved.

Opening Remarks

Rich Portelance

Hello again for another edition of the EdGate Powers podcast. I'm super excited today. For the second time, I'm getting a chance to speak with Hillary Rinaldi from Whiteboard Advisors. She's a VP over there and she has perspective from spending time up on Federal Hill. She's been at the state level and she knows a lot about standards. And today, we're going to talk specifically about the portrait of a graduate aligning standards to build future-ready learners. Hillary, you want to give a quick intro?

Hillary Rinaldi

Absolutely. Thanks for having me back, Rich. I'm excited to nerd out on some topics today related to standards and what the landscape looks like looking out in a very chaotic time. 

But I– my work at Whiteboard Advisors is focused on K-12 research and policy. I support our clients and partners in serving both states and districts. I was at the Tennessee Department of Education for several years, and worked on the Hill as well. And right now, I think the question I'm getting asked the most is, you know, “What can we expect from the federal budget?” So, I know that's top of mind for many. And you know, I don't have a crystal ball, but we can maybe think about what that backdrop looks like as states are kicking off their legislative sessions, or preparing for spring legislative sessions, and what that means for districts, schools, and classrooms.

Rich Portelance

Well, if you're watching this and it's, you know, October or November 2025, then we can probably ask the question, what federal budget? 

Hillary Rinaldi

Correct. 

Rich Portelance

Hopefully that gets resolved over time.

Discussion

Rich Portelance

I want to start off with some context. So, for those who might not be familiar, could you explain what a portrait of a graduate is, what it means, and how it's being adopted by states and districts across the country?

Hillary Rinaldi

Absolutely. So, a “portrait of a graduate”, or a “profile of a learner”, this is a documentation that a state or a district is codifying to say, “This is what it means for our graduates to leave our systems ready”, right? So getting beyond just core academics of what those durable skills or competencies are that are included, there are a few states that I think have really led the way around portraits of a graduate. 

I would point to Kentucky as being a state that went through a pretty robust process through their United We Learn strategic plan, and laying out their Portrait of a Graduate, and that's in place across Kentucky, having then been adapted and personalized within their districts. At this point, more than half of the states have some type of portrait of a graduate or other durable skills. I think where it gets… where I get a lot of questions of, like, “Oh, this state doesn't have a portrait of a graduate, but they might have another set of essential skills that they point to.” So, Colorado would be an example where there is not a state portrait of a graduate or profile of the learner, but there are the Colorado Essential Skills and those touch on many of the same topic areas.

Rich Portelance

And how did this whole concept emerge? Where did it come from?

Hillary Rinaldi

It's a good question. I think some of it is in conversation in– of… knowing that we want our students to be prepared for both college and career. I think that's one place I think we've heard from the workforce that our students are, you know, whether they're prepared academically doesn't necessarily mean that they have those skills that we look for or that we need to be successful in the workplace or at any point after high school. So, I think when we look across the portraits of a graduate and those skills that exist, most of them include things like communication, critical thinking, and collaboration. So more of those interpersonal skills, or what many, I think right now, are calling durable skills, or those competencies, and really the desire to ensure that students are leaving high school prepared for the future of their choice, and that we know that there are things beyond core academics that also require learning experiences and opportunities in the classroom.

I’d say that the second part of this is also what else– like, what should school look like, then the conversations that I've had with states around high school transformation, and that, you know, the classroom setting doesn't have to look the same as it has for the last hundred years, even though for most students in most high schools and most states, that's exactly what it still looks like.

Rich Portelance

Okay. You know, I'm thinking about some of these transformations and what those future-ready skills might be. And I think we have to emphasize the “might” because we really don't know, since as AI and some of these other new technologies come into force, we're seeing a huge transformation in what the world of work looks like. 

How are you seeing states define some of these skills and competencies for these future-ready learners and trying to be adaptive?

Hillary Rinaldi

For sure. So, it also is the question of, like, how do we assess these things? So I'm going to answer your question, and then I think the next part is, like, well, how do we know it's working? And that might be harder to articulate. 

So, there are a handful of states that, either within their portrait of a graduate, or within an additional state context, have talked about digital literacy or AI competency. And so, I do think that that is both a hot topic and one that is evolving, of, you know… if the last time you and I sat down and had a conversation like this, AI was not nearly as permeated across our work. Not me personally, and I think not what we see in classrooms either. So, you know, I work with some of the largest districts in the country, and they're thinking about how they should bring AI to their students in a way that is both additive, right? These are all… they were raised in a technologically advanced society. This is their native landscape. And at the same time, what are both the guardrails from standpoints of, yes, there are safety concerns of how do we protect minors within AI or any technology, and then also how do we make this additive to their learning experience? So that you're not, you know, taking a picture of your math problem and asking ChatGPT to solve it for you, but, like, how does it help you to learn, grow, and develop as a student? I think that's something that many teachers are grappling with, and it doesn't mean that AI shouldn't be in the classroom. It's just, like any tool, we have to think about how it is additive and how it can support student learning. 

So one way that comes into play is through efforts like digital literacy and, you know, the ISTE (International Society for Technology in Education) seal, and the work that's happening within edtech companies to help students to know what their digital footprint is, and that, you know, once something's online, it's online forever. And now there's a whole new world with what AI looks at too.

Rich Portelance

So, a couple things. 

One, I want to just remind everybody who's watching that we're going to do a webinar coming up in December, on December 17th. Hillary will be on the panel. We also have a member of the Texas Board of Education coming aboard. We have– 

Hillary Rinaldi

Yes, Kevin Ellis!

Rich Portelance

Kevin Ellis! 

So, we're also gonna do a podcast– 

Hillary Rinaldi

And Lisa Masta. It's a good– It's going to be a fun one! It's a good way to close out a very busy year.

Rich Portelance

It really is. So, as you're preparing for the holidays, take the time to join our webinar. It's going to be a fantastic panel. We're talking about a portrait of a graduate, we're talking about how it aligns to standards, and, you know, how this is all progressing. 

And I also want to give a shoutout to a young entrepreneur that I've been talking to, Daquan Oliver. He runs a program called WeThrive, and, you know, Hillary, I bring this up because what he's doing is he's helping underestimated youth build entrepreneurship as part of their, you know, kind of lexicon. How do I think outside the box so I can take it and determine my own outcome, you know? So, that was the impetus for what he's doing, and he's bringing this program out; he's trying to bring corporations into it. But that idea of teaching those kinds of soft skills that you need in entrepreneurship, you know, do I have the agency to do something? That really applies to a portrait of a graduate, because it can't be just, “Did I learn what's in my math textbook?” It's got to be more creative and soft in terms of how these young people think and adapt to new situations.

So, with that said, I wanted to ask you about, you know, about academic and CTE standards and how they're adjusting to reflect the identities of the portrait of a graduate or a portrait of a learner frameworks?

Hillary Rinaldi

Yeah. 

I think it's also about relevance, right? And the example you bring up of, like, making high school meaningful to students when they have more options than ever before, and are eager to ask the questions of, like, “When am I going to use this? Why does this matter? How does this connect to what I want in the future?” And that comes to bear just as we think of, like, chronic absenteeism continuing to be at all-time highs. And so, I think in truly supporting students, we need to meet them where they're at, and ensure that what they're learning is meaningful to them and meaningful to their future. So I think that's part of the conversation around building those competencies, but it's also, then, what is the course content that's happening within their core academics? And whether that is math, ELA, science, social studies, and CTE, I think all of the ways that, like,– the role that standards play can help shape that, but really, it's about the curriculum and instruction that comes alongside it. 

So, I think for those of us that maybe aren't in the weeds on standards every day, I think it's helpful to give a little refresher of, like, K-12 academic standards are set by states, they're typically approved by the state board of education, and that is the explicit, you know, concrete detail of “This is what you must learn in this course at this grade level, and we teach and assess against those standards”. Once the standards are set, then states and districts go through a process of instructional material review or textbook adoption. We still say textbooks even if most things are not in textbooks at this point. And so, what states, you know, 18 states have formalized instructional materials review processes that districts are then either recommended or required to adopt from. Otherwise, districts do this on their own accord, and when they're reviewing instructional materials, they're assessing against those state standards to say, “Does this meet all of the standards?” And of course, that's much of the work that EdGate does to be able to say, like, “Does the taxonomy of the standards meet what's being asked? And of what's being taught?” 

Now, having had the opportunity to visit many classrooms across the United States, there's a big difference when kids are engaged in the content that they're learning, and when kids are bored, and you can tell immediately. And kids that are bored do not absorb that material, right? And so, when we think about what's in standards, it's kind of, like, the baseline, then what's in the curriculum, and then it's up to the teacher to be able to support students in acquiring that knowledge. I think when we look at the evolution of CTE, of career and technical education, we have more states that are putting more of an emphasis on CTE. I think typically– you're going to have to fact– we might have to have a disclaimer or fact check, but I think typically CTE standards are reviewed less frequently than math and ELA standards. I think maybe depending on the state, but I think if we just anticipate that maybe CTE standards are not reviewed as often, or as robustly, potentially. And I think right now, you have more states with more emphasis on CTE, and part of that is ensuring that those courses are meeting the demands of what we're teaching students in what fields they're going into, right? I can imagine that if, you know, I had the chance to visit a welding class when I was working in Tennessee in, like, the Tri Cities area. You can imagine that what they were learning in welding, and even, you know, 10 years ago, let alone 30 years ago, might look very different. So, both what the standards reflect in, and the, like, hands-on skills and tools that you're using. And, you know, credit to states for investing pretty significantly in CTE over the last few years, so that students are able to use the most up-to-date technology to be able to demonstrate those skills.

Rich Portelance

So, you know, I would agree with your assumption that CTE standards are not necessarily less rigorous, but they have less checks and balances against them. You know, from what we've seen in our database, there are millions of CTE standards, and within each topic, you may see state and district standards come into the database where education standards seem to be more focused, because we did have Common Core to bring those together. And now there's some, you know, there's uncoupling of that, and the states are going and doing some of their own customizations. But a lot of that is still based on the Common Core, where I would think, you know, kind of watching the space, I think that CTE is going to go through a similar kind of pathway, that eventually you're going to see this regrouping and culling of some CTE standards, so they become more rigorous or more exact of what's needed. 

But, you know, part of that is bridging gaps to where– what the industry expects, right? That's kind of what a standard tries to do. Where do you think the biggest disconnects are between traditional standards and frameworks, and real-world competencies today?

Hillary Rinaldi

Oh, tough question. And I think it's also, like, the purpose of standards and the purpose of a portrait of a graduate, like, those are at different grain sizes, I think too, right? But the connective tissue becomes what's happening in the classroom. I think, like, the mark of strong state standards is not having an innumerable list of standards, right? So, I think part of the discussion now and in some of the conversations recently of state standards revision processes is also about narrowing the standards, ensuring that what standards are included are the ones that need to be included. And for CTE, that's also about reflecting what the field is seeking. I think that also becomes– it can be a hyper-local exercise too of what CTE offerings are existing. It should be tied to what that local workforce market is seeking, and I think some states are really putting effort into that to ensure that students are also not going down a CTE path that is a dead end, right? The goal, as we talk about, you know, stackable credentials and continued education, is that it's not, you know, one and done, but that you're continuing on that path. That's critically important that you're– that there's future work down the line for you to continue from. 

I think how we ensure students are building those skills also comes through in the work-based learning opportunities, as well. For CTE pathways, most pathways as you get to, you know, year three and four, there's going to be potential for work-based learning and work-based opportunities. I think states have put in a lot of effort in developing guidance or defining what a quality work-based learning experience is, and that, of– you know, we know firsthand, you learn more from being in a work setting with the demands of a real job than you're going to– right? That's where you're applying knowledge. 

And I think that's also where we can evaluate how students are acquiring those skills, because it's difficult to say, “How do you assess a student's critical thinking ability?”, right? Like, yes, there are ways to do it, but if I'm handing them a real-time problem to solve on a job site, like, that's some critical thinking right there. 

So, I do think the work out of the skills for the future assessment that is in partnership with ETS (Educational Technical Service), Carnegie, and the XQ Institute to be able to say, you know, states that have identified these skills and want to assess. There are five states that are participating in that pilot. And so, I think that will help to, you know, share learning with the field of what comes next.

Rich Portelance

We should do a podcast with ETS in the future, because I think that assessment component is just really the most fascinating part of this, and it's going to be one of the most difficult, as you said, as you clearly stated. 

Are there specific states that have successfully aligned their standards or graduate requirements to this portrait yet? Or do you see– are there some that are more advanced in that process? 

Hillary Rinaldi

Yeah. I think there I think there are some states that are maybe further along in… like, articulating what those things are, and how they… how they're talking about it, right? Because also part of this is about, you know, it's only as meaningful as the students, parents, and the community feel it is too, right? So I think of, you know, the states that have their statewide portrait of a graduate, and that it's not then living disconnected from everything else. 

So I think Indiana is a great example. Indiana GPS, or Graduates Prepared to Succeed, that is both– the Indiana GPS is what captures their Portrait of a Graduate, but then they also refresh their data dashboard. So when you go to the Indiana GPS website, it walks you through what the priorities of the state's education system are, where they are in measuring against those goals, from everything from, you know, early literacy and seamless transitions from high school. So I think each of those areas, and they're one of the few states that are also looking at employment data after high school, so it is being able to kind of tell a story and bring that all together. 

I think I mentioned Kentucky earlier, but Kentucky’s United We Learn was their strategic plan that then the Portrait of a Graduate came out of that work, and a lot of what, you know, Kentucky has focused on is both creating… making it meaningful across all of their districts. So yes, it is something that was produced or signed off by the Kentucky Board of Education (KBE), and that was back, I think, in 2023. But it's not just the piece of paper that, you know, you put up the poster of, “This is the Portrait of a Graduate”; it is embedded in the work that they're doing.

I think I'm interested to see… I'll give you a third; I know you like operating in threes, so I’ll give you a third state, but New York State has also included their– as part of their graduation measures initiative, what the New York State Portrait of a Graduate is. I think there are many districts across New York that are also doing this work. But in looking at… of the… there's not necessarily a ton of variance between what the competencies are that are included in these state Portraits. But I think the mark of success will be what happens next, right, of how does this become a part of the work that the state is doing? How is it taken on by districts, either independently, or… and creating that cohesion of, this isn't, you know, another thing, this is actually a part of our role in supporting all students in what they do after graduation.

Rich Portelance

So, you know, in terms of policy as it plays into this portrait of a graduate, what mechanisms like accountability systems, funding priorities, and graduation requirements are most effective in advancing this kind of work? Have you seen some examples?

Hillary Rinaldi

Yeah, I always think of it like the “carrots and the sticks” of accountability too, right? The portraits of a graduate are not things that are currently tied to accountability. Most state accountability systems, right, as required by the federal– by ESSA (Every Student Succeeds Act) that say, like, what is… that includes summative assessment data, growth, your school quality, and student success indicators. 

I think as we get into what comes next, and part of this is, you know, we have, like, half a dozen states that have submitted ESEA (Elementary and Secondary Education Act) flexibility waivers, some of them related to accountability and assessment, like, how does this become a part of those conversations? Is there a world in which measures of school quality and student success take into account part of the portrait of a graduate, or developing those student competencies? I think all of that hinges on how we are assessing them, and like we said, there isn't necessarily a great way to do that yet. 

So I think it becomes, you know, there are other proxies that we might look at, you know, what percentage of students might be engaged in work-based learning? Or how many students are leaving high school already with their associate’s degree, right? Students who have taken on additional coursework and have earned credit coursework. 

There are no states that have tied anything funding-related to portraits of a graduate, and I… and because I don't think, like, what is it that you would fund? I'm not entirely sure. I think it has more to do with what will come around that, and if assessments can catch up to what we're trying to look at, then that could be something that states might fund in the future.

Rich Portelance

Got it. Got it. 

And do you see anything that's holding systems back from fully embracing these frameworks? And what strategies have you seen work that overcome the resistance that might be there, or the inertia that's trying to take place?

Hillary Rinaldi

Yeah, I think the biggest barrier to really anything right now is adding more to a teacher's plate, right? Or saying that, “It's just another thing”, or that, “It's another initiative that will be short-lived.” I haven't seen that necessarily play out. I think most in the education space agree that we need to be supporting students in building skills like this, and so it also isn't something that should be separate, right? We don't go to math class, and then science class, and then our durable skills class, right? It is important that these things are in concert with our academic learning, and that's how we'll learn them best, right? If we're talking about problem solving and communication, like, that of course brings me to math class, where you are literally solving problems. But if it's from a place of rote memorization, then that's not the same. So I think it also builds on the need for conceptual understanding in our academic subjects. You know, I have a particular passion for math, but that's a whole other topic that we could go into as well. 

So I think the overcoming of getting the buy-in is also in how you engage stakeholders and the communities. Like the states that we talked about, it was not something that was created in a silo or approved in isolation–it's something that had a feedback process; there was input from the community. And I think critically important is that we include students in this work to say what it is that they think is most important for them to walk away with. How do they want to leave high school prepared for the future, and what are the things that they need to learn and have experience doing while still in high school?

Rich Portelance

No, it's– I think that's fantastic. It sounds like it's more comprehensive in terms of, you know, looking at that student and what they need to walk forward into the future. 

And when we speak about what's next, AI and workforce shift is top of mind for everybody. With AI and automation changing the skills landscape, how should a portrait of a graduate evolve to keep pace with the future of work?

Hillary Rinaldi

I'm hopeful that the way they've been developed, that it is a bit more evergreen, right? That it isn't… we're not talking about skills that are tied to this exact moment in time, right? When we talk about, you know, and it's probably helpful to share, like, what competencies are most common, but I mentioned a few of, like, critical thinking and communication. I think also, you know, collaboration, decision making, and… citizenship is something that comes up. For some states, financial literacy might fit here versus as a graduation requirement. It's also about being a lifelong learner. And so, if those are the things that are captured within these Portraits of a Graduate, then how we… then it's not something that necessarily has to go back and be revised in the same way that standards do. 

But instead what we're revising is how we are ensuring that students are able to have that time. And I think that is also… are able to develop those skills. I think that's also when we talk about high school transformation alongside the future of work, of where are those opportunities for students to demonstrate those skills, and that can and should look different than a traditional classroom. 

So whether it is, you know, a blend– a project-based learning model where, you know, you're not split into specific subject matters every day, but instead, you're approaching a project or a problem in which it covers standards across your core academic areas, that is an opportunity in which you're able to develop those skills. And I think, like we talked about with work-based learning opportunities and true internships and apprenticeships where students are able to test those skills and apply their knowledge and learning, I think students are hungry for that. 

Rich Portelance

Mhm. So on our upcoming webinar on December 17th, a reminder, we're going to be talking about the paradigm shift as the states take ownership, and you know, the federal government relinquishes some of that power over the states to create these new ways in which to help students progress through and find success.

And this portrait of a graduate or a learner takes shape in different places, and we're looking at the evolution, what's successful, what might not be so successful, and also another big component of that is equity and access. It's something that, you know, this undercurrent has been around for years and years, and I'm curious, Hillary, how a portrait of a graduate framework ensures that all students, regardless of their zip code or their background, can have access to future-ready learning opportunities?

Hillary Rinaldi

Well, it's exactly that, right, Rich? Of, like, these are designed and intended to support every single student, right? We're not saying that it's a different portrait for students on this side of the state, or a different portrait for students that fit within this demographic. These are the goals, these are the aspirations, and we believe every student can graduate from high school with these skills. 

I think where the rubber meets the road is ensuring that there are those opportunities within every school environment. And although I've mentioned high school multiple times, this really is thinking about K-12, right? These are not skills that you exclusively develop when you get to high school. And when we think about, you know, communication and collaboration, my first thought is in a pre-K classroom where they're learning through play, and all of that has to do with how they are communicating with one another, right? So, I think it's also that those opportunities are not, you know, something exclusive to high school, or exclusive to any type of class or subject matter. 

I think the authority and autonomy have always been with the states, certainly since the passage of the Every Student Succeeds Act, with states setting their own challenging academic standards. And this is another way that states are asserting, you know, “This is what it means to graduate from our state.” I think it's helpful that there are consistencies among and between states and districts on this, and I think the next step will be: how are we assessing those skills and how are we creating those learning environments? 

And so, I'm optimistic for that, and I hope that, you know, the field will come alongside those supports. I think certainly, you know, the science of psychometrics has come much further along in the last few years to be able to think of smart ways to assess students, and, you know, part of the conversation with states of what is the role of summative assessments, what is the role of NAEP (National Assessment of Educational Progress), and how are we using different types of assessments so that we're getting meaningful feedback for students, teachers, and parents, because one test cannot serve all of those purposes. And so, how do we get smarter on how and what assessment is, as well?

Rich Portelance

So, if you were going to redesign a system that allowed you to conduct better assessment, with all of that in mind, because that's almost your starting point, right? Is that we need to assess this really well? How would you redesign the next generation of standards from scratch in order to prioritize and develop learners for, you know, work-life, and be able to assess that?

Hillary Rinaldi

Just a simple question, huh, Rich? You're just going to say, like, “Final question, let's make it as hard-hitting as possible”? I think– 

Rich Portelance

I'm throwing you the golf balls, Hillary!

Hillary Rinaldi

Yeah, sure! I think the– right, we need standards to maintain and serve their purpose, of these are the things that students are learning, and as discreet and specific as possible. 

So, I think, you know, Kevin Ellis will join our webinar and talk about where Texas sits in their standards review process. They're currently looking at their math standards in particular, and one of the things that I advised the Texas State Board on was to say, “This is not about starting from scratch, right? We don't need to throw out our standards and have a whole new set. It is about understanding where do those standards fit, and do some of them need to live within different grade levels than they have before?” So I think where standards go next is, like, we don't need to start over. That's my full stop. Like, we don't need to start over; we have reached a place where standards are where they need to be, and it's more of the tinkering based on what we know, and how, certainly in math, how we know students learn, and the course progressions especially as we get to upper grades. So, let's not throw out standards or restart in any way, especially because that's the best way to really send teachers into a tizzy, is to say, “We're going to restart. We have to learn all new standards”, right? 

So, that's our baseline. Then, as we think about the instructional materials that get layered on top of those standards in order to support teachers and students in learning and acquiring that content knowledge, I think there is opportunity to build in those skills. And I think some of the strong, high-quality instructional materials providers would say that many of these skills are baked into how you're doing this work. 

You know, I was observing math classrooms in the school district of Philadelphia a few weeks ago, and seeing how their lesson planning and student engagement was really about, you know, working in pairs, or working in groups, and having independent thought time. Like, even how you orchestrate those lessons, right? And what that means, you're building in those skills already. So, I would love to pose the question, right, to teachers that are doing this work every day to say, “How do you know that your students are, you know, strong collaborators or have high self-awareness? How do you think about that?” Because– or with creativity? I would argue that any teacher in this country would be able to tell you exactly how they might quantify or qualify their students– those competencies in their students. 

And so, what that means for assessment, I leave that up to the assessment designers and psychometricians to tell us how we might be able to do that. But I never want to underplay the role of teachers and that, you know, they know their students best, too.

Rich Portelance

Yeah. I really appreciate that answer, and I know that was not an easy question, so I thank you for taking it on. 

You know, we're going to have this conversation with Kevin Ellis from the Texas Board of Education, Lisa O’Masta, the CEO of Learning.com, and of course, Hillary, myself, the EdGate team, and Whiteboard Advisors will be bringing this content to you on December 17th. So, you know, that's going to be a great conversation; we know that already. 

Let's talk about takeaways. You know, one thing you wish that more states or district leaders understood about the link between standards and the portrait of a graduate vision. What do you think of that, and what could be…

Hillary Rinaldi

I think it's the… connecting the dots to ensure that it's not viewed as another thing, right? I think where we lose teachers and principals is that top-down to say, “Here's something else that you're now responsible for”, right? And that's not quite true. I think giving credence to the fact that these are skills that have always been a part of learning in school. 

Now, we've taken the step to say we've articulated them in our state: this is what they look like, and many districts have done so either additive to what the state has done, or in states where they don't have their own state-level portrait, that it is something districts have done. So I think it's also that this isn't– these are not brand new ideas. I think where there's opportunity is creating that cohesion and then what does it mean to demonstrate those competencies, right? And part of that, I would love if we talked about it in the context of student engagement and giving students another reason to show up to school every day, of these are the reasons why they're going to choose to have good attendance in high school and want to be participatory, because we are making their coursework, right, as we teach standards, that it is relevant and meaningful to what they want to do next.

Rich Portelance

I would encourage administrators, if you're watching or listening to this podcast, I happen to be the husband of a high school art teacher, and going to those classes that are non-Common Core, you often see some of these soft skills rise to the surface. Kids learn, or you see the leadership, or you see the creativity; you see some of these other things take shape or just come out naturally of students when they're put into different situations. And those are wonderful places to start to make some of those linkages towards what a portrait of a graduate is because it's, as Hillary is describing, beyond simply the math skills, which are so critical, or the English skills, or these other things that we're learning in the classroom; it's the stuff that's harder to measure and we're trying to figure out how to measure them. So, I would encourage you to take a look at those classrooms; I hear it almost every day at the dinner table,– 

Hillary Rinaldi

Absolutely.

Rich Portelance

–kids coming forward and seeing these different personalities and sides of themselves start to take shape. 

So, for the listeners,–

Hillary Rinaldi

I couldn’t agree more!

Rich Portelance

–educators, publishers, and edtech leaders, what's one practical step, Hillary, that they can take to help align their work with this future-focused approach we're talking about?

Hillary Rinaldi

I think many are, right? I think the ones that are successful are thinking about it as the specifics of the state or local. I think I advise a lot of partners on this, of like, you have to speak the language of your audience, right? And so, knowing whether it's a portrait of a graduate, or a profile of a learner, or some combination of those words, that's important, and it means that you've done your homework and know what those things include. There are consistencies across, but there might be things that are particularly important or relevant in that district. And I think it's really important that we listen to students and teachers. 

And so, if they're saying that, you know, this product, this curriculum, this is working super well for my kids and I'm able to show that, we should listen to those voices. I think, you know, all of this, it gets down to a student level, and we need to think of students as whole people, not just who they are in math class, science class, ELA class, or art class, but like, what does that mean and how are they able to contribute to their community and beyond? And I think that, you know, the most tactical way is just to know your audience, use their language, and we can all, I think, be good listeners in that.

Rich Portelance

I think that's wise and sage advice from someone who is observing this space for a very long time. I appreciate where you're coming from and I would agree.

Closing Thoughts 

Rich Portelance

You know, in terms of a final thought, if we can reconvene this conversation in, let's say, five years, what would success look like for this movement and a portrait of a graduate?

Hillary Rinaldi

I think success would look like… students… where every student is graduating from high school being able to articulate how they are prepared, right? How they meet these competencies, that they're able to showcase their work in ways beyond a traditional transcript, and that they've had meaningful and relevant experiences that build into what they want to do in the future. 

I think we are not far away from a world where the ebb and flow between professional work and post-secondary education is constant. I think we're continuing to see that, you know, going from high school directly to a four-year institution, and then maybe never pursuing education beyond that, that you're in a job for forever, and I think that's an unlikely scenario. And so, I think the undergirding of all of these things, of standards, assessments, and skills, all of those things need to work together to benefit students. And so, I hope most students are benefiting, being that individualized learning is only possible if we really rethink what a classroom looks like, as well.

Rich Portelance

Well, Hillary, I really thank you for your time today. 

Please join us on December 17th, Hillary will be back. We'll be having this conversation, and we'll talk about these paradigm shifts which are occurring in education.

Hillary, thank you for your time today, this has been outstanding as always.

Hillary Rinaldi

Thank you so much, Rich, it’s a joy, and I will see you soon. 

Rich Portelance

Okay, sounds good. Thank you.