The following transcript has been edited for readability. Timestamps have been removed and minor transcription errors corrected. Speaker comments and context have been preserved.

Opening Remarks

Rich Portelance

Hello, my name is Richard Portelance from EdGate, and welcome to the EdGate Powers Education podcast. Today, I am very excited to be speaking with Michael Campbell. We are stepping into Q1 2025, talking about international education, how it is affecting– how many companies are trying to break into new markets, we're talking about technology. And in a week's time, we'll be gearing up for the Q1 podcast. Michael will be joining us on that podcast, so if you get a chance, look below; there's going to be a registration link, and please join us for that exciting discussion. But in the meantime, you get to hear Michael and myself chat about all things education. So, without further ado, Michael Campbell. 

Michael Campbell

Thanks, Richard. I'm Michael Campbell. I'm the president of Advancing Global EDU. Our company has been around for about seven years. We do consulting for small to midsize companies that are in the education space, mainly in edtech and in the education sectors–publishing specifically–for schools, districts, and higher education. Our other business that we do is that we own a school, and the school is called Dual Bridges Academy. Dual Bridges Academy offers a dual diploma from here in the U.S. and in Mexico, and we will be taking our first class in fall of 2025. 

Discussion

Rich Portelance

Wow, that's got to be so exciting for you, Michael, and for your team. Congratulations on the Dual Bridges Academy. Let's talk about that a little bit. What prompted the formation of that school? What were the reasons behind it, and then, you know, where are the pupils coming from? 

Michael Campbell

So, it's a great story. My business partner, Sasha de Silva, is a former diplomat, and she was the education attaché for the government of Mexico to France. And so, as a result, she brought that opportunity to us in the fall, and we have built that business plan, brought in some investors, and, you know, did the research, and parents are really looking for an education experience for their kids based on our research with the absenteeism. You know, we've seen in the media where the public schools, charter schools, and even private schools, in some cases, and they are not happy with the educational experience that they have. 

So, you know, this gives them the opportunity to have education anytime, anywhere, and our goal is to offer them that experience, as well as all the services, such as tutoring and art, all those kinds of things as an online experience. So, they'll have the same experiences that they can get. They'll have physical education, they'll have all of those kinds of things as an online experience. 

Rich Portelance

So, as an online experience, you're going to be drawing kids from just the U.S.? Or are you going to be cross-border with education? 

Michael Campbell

You know, based on our interest, we look at– about 30% will be from Latin America, 30% will be here in the U.S., and the rest will be global. And those could come from Asia, from the Middle East, and from Europe. And that is strictly because of, you know, offering a dual diploma offers those students the opportunity for a global experience, and they can really use that to go to university here in North America. You know, we are the place to be for university, and so– and Canada. We're probably the number one and number two places to go for higher education, and so– And there, you know, as we did our research, there's some outstanding universities for technical careers in Mexico, and so they have some world-class universities in Mexico, and of course in Europe. You know, you have some of the best universities in the UK, and in France, and places like that, as well. But you often hear about international schools sending their kids to the University of Michigan and the University of Toronto, places like that. But, you know, with a dual diploma, these kids can have that opportunity to go anywhere they want to go. 

Rich Portelance

Well, that's exciting to hear, and there's a ton of questions that I have about that experience. So, are you aligning to specific sets of standards? If it's going to be a dual degree, are you beholden to certain types of standards in order to provide that curriculum to meet requirements? 

Michael Campbell

Yeah, so, you know, in order to get our accreditation, you know, we had to get accredited in Mexico, and then we had to get accredited here in the U.S. And our accreditation, we're looking at accreditation in New Mexico. So, our accreditation here in New Mexico will– and frankly, my offices are here in the Chicago area, but the school will be based in New Mexico, and it's an online school to be specific and the curriculum will be based on a New Mexico curriculum, so it will align with the New Mexico curriculum for the U.S. So, kids who get a diploma will get a diploma from New Mexico, and then they will also get a diploma from Mexico. 

And those will align with the specific accreditation from Mexico. And, you know, we will work with folks like EdGate and people like that to help us align those… our curriculum, and better take those two curriculums together so that they– so that our kids don't have to double up on courses, and that's not what we want. We want kids to have a great experience and the parents to have a great experience. And so it's a bilingual school, and so they may be taking, you know, the history of Mexico, but they also take American history, and things like that, as well, so… 

Rich Portelance

Fantastic. So, to tug on that thread just a little bit further, you know, New Mexico, like many other states, adopted Common Core at some time, and then they've diverted from Common Core a bit. And some states are very far away from what Common Core was, and some states are fairly close. What's your experience with that, and is that a consideration too as you build curriculum? 

Michael Campbell

Yeah, of course. You know, we… not only for our school, but for our clients, we often look at, you know, the curriculum for our clients. And, you know, whether they're in Virginia, whether they're in North Carolina, whether they're in California, Illinois, or Texas, we have to look at the curriculum, because each of these curriculums are a bit different these days, because the Common Core has changed a bit for each of these states. Especially, you know, you have Texas, who doesn't even participate in the Common Core; you have a lot of these states who have completely changed what they started out with in the Common Core, and they've, you know, added all kinds of new things to it, like Florida. All of these kinds of states have added new things. 

You have NGSS (Next Generation Science Standards) standards, which are science standards; you have all these different kinds of standards that our school will be looking at and adhering to, and so I think standards are strict– are really important for any company and for any school to take a look at and align their solution to those. So, you know, you need to take a look at those and really think about aligning your curriculum, aligning your solution to those standards, no matter what state. 

And, you know, as we work with global schools–our companies sell to global schools like in Dubai, and different places like that–a lot of these states, a lot of these countries require that they align their standards to a certain state curriculum. So, like in… Dubai, in the past, they have required that a certain school align their standards to, like, the Connecticut standards, or the New York standards, in order to get their accreditation. And so, you have to look at those kinds of things too if you're going global. 

Rich Portelance

So, just to put a fine point on kind of that whole theme, one of the things that EdGate has done recently is launched a resource on the website for standards comparison, because as you were just describing, you know, whether it’s NGSS, Common Core, C3 (College, Career, and Civic), or international standards, there's, you know, people want to understand how far apart they are from the Common Core to get to those different states, you know, like Texas. And in Q4 last year, we did a whole webinar on Texas specifically, and how that is shaking out. So the maps, if you go to the maps on EdGate.com and go to resources, you'll see the standards comparison. 

So you can click on any particular state, and it'll give you a range and percentage of how close that content is and their standards are to Common Core, so you can kind of do some planning against that. And, of course, within the platform– the ExACT platform, you can run those comparisons and come up with alignments and global alignments within the system. So, you know, I just mention that because I think it's an important resource that they're offering for free for people to look at these things, because if you're an education publisher or an edtech provider and you're trying to find new opportunities in new states, the first thing you need to do is, you know, align, and then you have to comply with whatever those regulations are. And so, understanding those things is really the first step in finding new contracts and winning new business, right? 

Michael Campbell

Exactly, and I can say that, you know, as an educator, that's one of the first things that they always ask, is, you know, “Is your solution aligned to the standards?” 

Rich Portelance

Yeah. So, and, you know, I think I would say, as a consultant, and I've consulted in edtech for a number of years, as well, and similar to you, had an edtech startup 12 years ago, so I've been in this field for a long time, tell me about your experience in helping global companies break into the U.S. market. Is that something that you face often? 

Michael Campbell

Yeah. So, it's always funny that global companies come to us and… Because they look at the U.S. as being such a huge country, and they really look at, you know, they look at, like, a country like Australia, and they look at a country like India or China, and they look at how big the opportunity is. And then they look at the U.S., and they say, “Oh, it's such a huge opportunity for us!” What they don't realize is that when they come to the U.S., it's really like coming to 50 or 52 different countries, you know? And so, when we tell them that, it's a bit of a surprise for them. 

And so, then we have to kind of educate them on the different regions, the different curriculums, and the different things that are going on between red states, blue states, you know, all the kinds of things that are happening within the country. And while they kind of know a lot of that kind of stuff, they don't realize the detail that it makes in running your business, coming to those, and selling and marketing to Educators. 

And, you know, really what that means is getting to help educators, and really help students succeed in those schools, and that's really what they want to do. They, you know– I mean, we all want to make money, but, you know, the reality is that all these companies really want to help teachers, help administrators, and help students succeed, and really what we want to do is help them find that niche that helps those stakeholders succeed. And so, we start off with helping them get an overview of what that niche needs to succeed. So, that may be talking to them about the curriculum, talking to them about, you know, Title I students, or talking to them about professional development. Whatever the case may be, it's really about helping them get to a successful win for them. 

Rich Portelance

And, you know, with that landscape changing so drastically here with the new administration coming in, we're going to see even more disruption to the space. So, as a consultant, how do you best guide people on, you know, how to approach the market? And, you know, what are some of the challenges that you see on the horizon here as folks try to win new business within the U.S. market? Or maybe it's, as you said, 52 different markets, so you’re pinpointing specific states? 

Michael Campbell

Right now, we're telling people, you know, there's a lot of people who are reticent to think about our market because of all the challenges with the new administration. All we hear, you know, in the media, is, “Oh, they're going to tear down the Department of Education.” Well, frankly, everything that I've heard is that it would take 60 votes in the Senate to tear down the Department of Education–they don't have the votes to do that. You know, there's a lot of rhetoric out there, and frankly, the money is– it follows the money. And Title I is still going to be there. These schools have to offer the services to Title I students. So, those kinds of services are still going to be there. 

There's a tremendous amount of need for those kinds of things; there's a tremendous amount of need for professional development. If you noticed that the scores for reading and math came out in the last couple of weeks, there was a lot of talk in the media about how schools have, you know, dropped in scores. There were a lot of, you know, high-ranking scores, but there were a lot of low-ranking scores there, which ultimately brought the scores down. 

Look at where those scores that were– those districts where the scores were down. Those districts need help in math and in reading. Those are real opportunities for schools and school districts. And so, what I would say is go where the money is at, and follow where the– not necessarily where the money is, but, you know, where the need is at. And so, we're looking at companies coming in from globally and domestic companies, and we're talking to them about how it's not just about what you hear in the media–it's about following the need and helping students and teachers succeed. 

Rich Portelance

Yeah we– if we look at, you know, those states, some of the things that are occurring today, you know, because, Michael, you were just kind of digging into more specifically about some of the challenges that we're seeing within the space, the U.S., and the market, and, you know, certainly the the Department of Education will still stand unless, you know, the Senate is switched. But the fact that the states are becoming much more divergent poses other challenges to providers. I'm curious about your take on how companies can address those changes and more quickly adopt their technologies to new markets, if you have any thoughts, and what you're advising companies in that regard?

Michael Campbell

I think, you know, as much as many want to talk negatively about things that are happening in Florida and in Texas, I still think that there are really good opportunities for our industry in in those states to help students and teachers succeed, you know, in reading, in mathematics, and in other areas in our business. You know, we… we tend to look at what the extremes are in our society, and a lot of times we can get past that and look at what the middle ground is, and how we can work our business to that middle ground, and really help those people who need help.

And I think that ultimately, our business needs to focus on how we can help students and teachers, and get past the rhetoric that's out there. And if you can get past the rhetoric that's out there, then you have the opportunity to really succeed in this business. The opportunities that are out there still remain to be there. You're still going to see RFPs for student information systems (SIS), you're still going to see RFPs for tutoring, all of those kinds of things. You're still going to see RFPs for a tremendous amount of different kinds of edtech and learning solutions that are out there, and you need to take advantage of those. 

Rich Portelance

So, within those RFPs, what we're seeing a lot is things like third-party reviews, you know, we're getting a lot of companies called to help with that. There's those compliance issues, you know, when you kind of look at the compliance landscape, is that something your company is assisting with and getting familiar with? Or do you have resources that you send people to? 

Michael Campbell

Exactly. We do a lot of research and work with other… you know, if there's in-depth research, we have other partners that we work with that do that. But yes, so our business does do the research on those kinds of things for compliance. And for different kinds of research going through that, we, you know, definitely work with companies like EdGate, people like that to look at curriculum compliance, mapping curriculum, and things like that for our companies. But then, you know, past that, we also look at, you know, other ways of looking at the impact that is… impact studies that are needed for students and for school districts, and how some of these solutions are vetted for these RFPs. 

Rich Portelance

Yep, that makes a lot of sense, Michael. Within that kind of, you know, thread as we're kind of looking at compliance, you know, there's– obviously the research is going to be really important, understanding what those states– how they're diverging and becoming individualized to some extent. But when you talk about tech, and if I'm a provider and I'm trying to get into new schools, we're seeing a lot more activity with advanced technologies. You know, whether machine reading and learning, or other things, like AI, what's been your experience so far in those advanced technologies, and how do you see that progressing? 

Michael Campbell

It's funny you should ask that. Yesterday, I would say that, of the, you know, five or six meetings that I had yesterday, probably four of them involved AI. And they involved AI, everything from assessments to, you know, syllabus… you know, understanding your syllabus or writing your syllabus for your class, to individualized learning for the classroom or for the student. And so, I see AI, and let me say this: I do think that teachers and administrators need to have a better understanding of AI–and we all do–and I think schools and school districts need to have some kind of, you know, parameters in place about AI and have a policy in place. I was at a seminar back in early January, and there was a parameter– or somebody said something about, of 800 districts, they asked how many had an AI policy in place, and only, like, two districts had an AI policy in place. 

And I think that what happens when that does– we become the wild, wild west, and everybody has something different in place, and I think what we really need to do is have something in place instead of nothing in place. But, with that being said, I do think that there are so many positive things about AI and about machine language learning that we can really help teachers and students succeed in the classroom. It doesn't replace teaching, but it really helps them in the classroom. 

And what that means is that we can give teachers more time with students, and give them what they do best is teach, instead of, you know, staying up late at night grading papers and doing things like that. And what it helps students do is really give them what they need best, is individualized learning plans. That really gives them that opportunity to dive into the material that they learn best with. 

Rich Portelance

Yeah, I think that's a wonderful point, and it kind of brings my mind to application matters and, you know, whether it's from the root of, you know, why you're using a certain technology, you know– technology for technology’s sake is fairly useless, but when you have a good basis and a good application, there can be an intersection and an improvement. And when you talk about individualized learning plans, you know, we as human beings, you know, want to continue to evolve education for all individuals. You know, it's kind of what we see in our schools, but it becomes difficult. I think we have more of an opportunity today than we've ever had to make education personalized, meaningful, and engaging to all students and all learners. Do you– you know, I guess my question would be, what's your take on that, how do you see that evolving, and how can companies best kind of start to move towards that direction so that, you know, we do– high tide raises all boats? 

Michael Campbell

Yeah, and you're going to see I think more and more of that, because, you know, at the conferences that I've been at recently, it's, you know, all we hear about is AI. And I think that the innovators are out there, and they are helping their colleagues raise that bar that's out there. And, like I said, the more people who get on board with AI and understand that it's not going to replace their jobs, it's going to help them in the classroom every day. 

You know, they can use this to write assessments to– and write effective assessments that reach students where they're at, and to give assessments that really help them understand their learning, not just give assessments for assessments’ sake. And, you know, help students with their reading comprehension, help students, you know… I saw one yesterday that really said, “Okay, we read a book–” Like, a teacher could really say, you know, speak to the AI and say, “Okay, this week we read The Great Gatsby. Tell me about chapter five.” And the AI would write questions about chapter five, and then he or she could go in and basically edit the questions that the AI wrote, as opposed to that teacher sitting there for hours writing questions, or, you know. 

And so, I just found that completely fascinating that the AI could– and the teacher could just say that, and they could do that–they didn't even have to type it out. And, you know, and it wasn't just that, you know, it could have been a geography class or anything. And then, you know, we all know that AI is not perfect, so you do have to edit it. And it's only as good as the information we put in, so I would say, you know, having things like EdGate aligning your curriculum and mapping your curriculum is important, because having that, you know, best-of-class, that bespoke information becomes more important for the AI to have. So, yeah, so that's, you know, that's what I would say about that, because it brings up the quality of education for everybody. 

Rich Portelance

You know, you said the basis is so critical, you know, when I think about these larger companies that are succeeding in the AI space, those companies are based on, and they have other technologies. It's not really just AI–it's, you know, it's natural language processing, it’s data analysis and analytics, it's advanced text analysis, you know, there's things behind it, you know, there's basis. It's not just saying, “I have AI, and I'm gonna now have it do–” 

Michael Campbell

Exactly. 

Rich Portelance

And, you know, in the case of EdGate, they've been around for 27 years, and one of the things I've always been drawn to at EdGate, you know, is kind of the way they have built their business. It was never– you know, they do have technology, advanced Technologies applied, but it's based on 27 years of experience, and when they first built their taxonomy for alignment, it was all done by hand, it was figured out, and then they applied processes, they got patents on those processes, they developed it, and then they started to add technology to enhance it. 

And so, today, you know, fast forward 20 years from that, now they have a system that uses the taxonomy to take standards–God bless you–and be able to properly align them using the taxonomies that are in place that have been patented. And, you know, are there some AI components? Yeah, but it's the other advanced technologies behind it similar to, you know, what you would find in OpenAI or some of these bigger large language models (LLMs) that really power that technology. And I bring it up in that context because I think when we're looking at companies… and companies ask, you know, me as a consultant or you as a consultant, you know, “How do I break in?” it's really having that strong basis, that foundation of whatever it is that you're trying to do in place without the technology, and then how do you apply technology to enhance and to make it more effective, right? 

Michael Campbell

Exactly. And I think as you see more teachers use it in the classroom and understand, “Hey, I'm not– this is– I'm not afraid to use it”. Like it's not a “Big Brother” kind of thing, and it's not something that if I touch it it's going to… I kind of look at it as, you know, when I first started– you know, I was a teacher first, and I was an innovator, and I used technology in the classroom. I mean, I used LaserDisc in the classroom, I don't know if you remember those. And so, they, you know, people are, like, afraid to use these kinds of technologies in the classroom because it might make them look stupid in front of their class, or whatever the case may be. And so, they continued, you know… and it's the same kind of thing. Teachers don't want to look dumb in front of their class or anything like that, and so I get it. So, as they continue to feel comfortable with the solution and with the technology, we're going to see more and more uptake of the use of the technology. 

Rich Portelance

Yeah, I think that makes a ton of sense. You know, my wife is a classroom teacher, and she even said something last night about AI and not really understanding. You know, they're applying certain AIs within the construct of her classroom, but, you know, she's not comfortable yet using it fully, and that's okay. It'll come around as people get more familiar and more comfortable and figuring out what the niche is. And it may not be for everyone, but if I'm an edtech provider, I'm providing solutions, and I look at, you know, well, I want to be able to sell in Vermont, as well as Texas, right, there's technologies that will help you do that, whether it's alignment or other places to make that happen quicker, more efficiently, and with higher quality, right? Because, you know, when you try to talk about opening new markets, I don't think– It's hard to imagine trying to, you know, let's even put the U.S. aside in the 52 different curriculums. If you look internationally, and if I'm a company and I'm trying to break into India, into Australia, you know, how do you do that effectively without the use of technology? 

Michael Campbell

Exactly.

Rich Portelance

Back around in terms of what we want to accomplish here, you brought up [Inaudible] individualized learning, because I think that's a really important point, and something that, you know, we’re aspirational, right? As… I think anybody in education tends to be that way, at least I found when I meet people who are doing things, like, you're building a school, Michael, and I think that's fantastic. And it's not only something you do to monetize, but I get the sense it's a labor of love, you know, this is something– 

Michael Campbell

Exactly. I mean, we thought about this, and I think that it's a great way to help kids who– and help parents who haven't found what they wanted in, you know, in their local school, private school, or in public schools. And, you know, ultimately what we want to do is help kids succeed. And, you know, myself and my business partner, we both have kids who had special needs, and so, you know, we saw our kids struggle through the system. My daughter is a freshman in college now, and, you know, I was happy that our local public schools had all the services that we needed to get her, you know, through school and prepared for college. 

A lot of schools and districts don't have what we had, and we want to be able to help parents and kids, you know, get to college, or, you know, get to wherever they want to be, whether– that may be getting a certification in HVAC (heating, ventilation, and air conditioning), or getting a CNA (certified nursing assistant) certification, or whatever that may be. What we want is to have kids that can enter the workforce, you know, happy, healthy, and ready to go for, you know, for their lives. 

Rich Portelance

There's a… With the advancement of CTE, it's, you know, really proliferating, you know, more and more students are choosing trades, which I think is fantastic. You know, I think we got a little bit wrong-headed in saying, “Everybody go to college”, and so, it's a natural adjustment. But that means now there's a proliferation of CTE standards at the tune of, like, seven to one over our education standards, which is crazy how many CTE standards are out there. So, again, you know, trying to bring alignment to those, and to have educators and edtech publishers be able to provide curriculum, you know, there's got to be some technology in there to make those connections happen quickly and effectively. I know EdGate's doing a bunch of work through their Journeys Map program on aligning CTE standards and boiling out skills. So, it's basically– they're extrapolating skills from the standards and saying, “Here's the skills that are needed”, and then if you take an assessment on an individual, you can do a crosswalk and and a gap analysis on, you know, “Okay, here's the skills that you have, here's what you need in order to get to that particular career.” 

So I thought that was the fascinating use of technology to start to bring about some connection. Are you seeing a lot of that? And as you start your school, how do you look at the trades and CTE and help people move towards those avenues? 

Michael Campbell

Well, in our first year, we're not offering CTE at the school, but it's on our road map. But we have other clients that are, and we know that, you know, the federal government is actively, here in the U.S., is actively promoting CTE, and there are a lot of grants and things like that going to states and to districts for the CTE programs. In fact, you know, the community colleges are getting quite a bit of that, and on the technology side, there are multiple ways that can be taught with that via, you know, the web and via AR (augmented reality), VR (virtual reality), kinds of things like that. And, you know, I'm so glad to hear that EdGate is trying to bring those standards, you know, around, because, you know, there are multiple standards out there, and we really need to find the best of the best that are out there. 

Rich Portelance

Yeah, I agree. I'm doing a little consulting for a company that's in the AR/VR space for fire rescue training, and so, you know, I'm seeing that evolution of, “Okay, here's a great technology.” They've actually gotten a patent on the properties of smoke and gases within a virtual environment, which I found incredibly fascinating. You know, whether the gas drops or expands, or, whatever it's doing, so that the fire protection people can start to, you know, go in there with their training, but there's certainly CTE components to that which have to align.

Closing Thoughts

Rich Portelance

All right, so we're getting tight on time, so I do want to remind people that there's going to be a webinar; Mike's going to be with us in a couple of weeks. Down below is a link, so please sign up for the webinar. We're going to have other panelists; we're going to be talking about these topics and more, and we'd love to have you join us. Mike Campbell, if you had to kind of give a vision of what you see the future looking like for individualized learning for technology, what does it look like in 20 years for you? 

Michael Campbell

I think one thing is that kids will have almost their personal AI working with them, as in– as, you know, as they're… and, you know, we have small group settings in the classroom, they'll go to class and they'll have their teacher, but they'll have their AI that works with them to give their– instead of small group settings, they'll have an AI that works with them to not only give them their individualized learning plan for the day after they give the teacher setting. So, I think there's some really neat things that could happen with technology, and with AI, and different things like that. To really help us get to that point, we're going to have to really think out of the box, and not do the old school thinking of school anymore. And I think that that's what's going to have to happen for us to really do that. 

Rich Portelance

Thank you so much, Michael. I agree wholeheartedly, and I’m looking forward to what that future has to offer, and I look forward to talking to you again in a few weeks on our webinar.  

Michael Campbell

Well, thanks for having me today. 

Rich Portelance

My pleasure.